Melee while casting?

[CapriciousOne]

How can you disagree with the truth?

-facepalm-

the only one who knows the truth is SE PERIOD. Everybody likes to think their view of a topic is the truth but that doesnt make it so necesarily. I include myself in that statement as well but we all see things how we want but whatever. Unless you yourself are part of the development team, anything anybody says is nothing but speculation without confirmation from them.

[CapriciousOne]

I think part of the reason this thread is getting as big as it is is the same reason as i got upset initially. Not everyone wants this to be done, but it comes down to can/cant it be done and thats what its being argued about at this point more than anything.

Can it be done? Simple answer is yes. Its far from a simple problem, and it would require intensive work and time, and effort, and would completely change the game from the ground up. But it CAN be done. Upon reflection i dont feel it should be done, or if it is not to affect all aspects of the game. At this point though the conversation has shifted to "YES IT CAN" vs "NO IT CANT, WELL IT CAN BUT WOULD BE TOO MUCH TO IMPLIMENT!" Which is true. I think if people would stop saying it cant be done, and stick to "too hard to do" then this wouldnt be so intense.

well said and 100% agreed

[CapriciousOne]

Can't be done without replacing the god damned Engine is what I said in the first place, Crimson.

When Saevel and I are completely agreeing on something, the rest of you need to step back and think real damn hard about what ground it is you think you're standing on.

LOL @ this statement like you and Saevel are the authorities on all things SE and MMO.

[CapriciousOne]

That's correct. Defensive "actions" are not actions. Monsters aren't actually doing anything when they dodge attacks. The player simply fails an accuracy check.

so essentially when we attack a mob we aren't really attacking but the mob is failing a defense check.

[Greatguardian]

the only one who knows the truth is SE PERIOD. Everybody likes to think their view of a topic is the truth but that doesnt make it so necesarily. I include myself in that statement as well but we all see things how we want but whatever. Unless you yourself are part of the development team, anything anybody says is nothing but speculation without confirmation from them.

Wrong.

If this were true, the only way we'd know how much the sun weighed or what it was made out of is by going out, putting it on a massive scale, and taking a piece of it home with us in a lab. There is such a thing as applying relative knowledge. SE is not a super special snowflake. After enough time working with similar technology, you're able to identify how other code bases are likely handling things.

See: my explanation of Porter Slips.

so essentially when we attack a mob we aren't really attacking but the mob is failing a defense check.

So, essentially, you're not reading on purpose.

[CapriciousOne]

Wrong.

1. If this were true, the only way we'd know how much the sun weighed or what it was made out of is by going out, putting it on a massive scale, and taking a piece of it home with us in a lab. There is such a thing as applying relative knowledge. SE is not a super special snowflake. After enough time working with similar technology, you're able to identify how other code bases are likely handling things.

See: my explanation of Porter Slips.



2. So, essentially, you're not reading on purpose.

1. I saw this snippet somewhere earlier to but the point I'm making is that unless somebody actually does exactly this then there is always the possibility of error in our assumptions that is all.

2. LOL I was being sarcastic based on the analogy being used but it clearly went over your head.

Try not taking everything I say so literal as I am generally only being speculative/philosophical at best. I could be literal but then I would have to do research, provide examples and get into otherwise lenghty and pointless debates .... oh wait I do that already LOL. Honestly though there are plenty of people that could make valid arguments for and against any and everything I say and I"m good with that as I'm not here to preach and convert anybody. I just simply try to make people think deeper and ensure that people are glossing over certain things or making things sound more accurate than it is without confirmation from the proverbial horses mouth (SE).

Nothing more nothing less than a missed opportunity at humor. I mean you even said it yourself "relative knowledge" and not absolute but so many on these forums would have you think otherwise.

[Greatguardian]

The possibility of error does not necessitate the existence of error. "100% proven facts" are few and far between. The idea is to simply lower the room for error as much as possible.

In this case, there is not much room for error. I don't have SE's server client in front of me, but I also don't need it in front of me. You talk about "research" and "valid arguments", but you make it abundantly clear that you have no idea what you're talking about. That's cool I guess. A valid argument is just an argument that can potentially be true in some possible universe. So I guess you have that half down at least.

It's just not true in this universe.

[saevel]

so essentially when we attack a mob we aren't really attacking but the mob is failing a defense check.

Actually yes.

Defensive moves are part of the attack function.

And while I know your trying to be a d!ck, you do realize I've actually run a RO server before. Ridiculously complex is small a statement for what the server side of an MMO looks like.

[ManaKing]

Being able to attack while doing it doesn't sound like your not putting a lot of effort into the spell part and it would just come out half~assed.

You mean like casting a lvl 75 BLM spell even though you are lvl 95? Single Target instead of AOE? What part of casting a Tier IV sounds like it should require a lot of effort?

I mean if we want to talk about half~assed then we can just talk about RDM lvl 76-95. What's the point of RDM if it is just going to be an inferior mage piece mixed with an inferior melee piece and have no actual job synergy to substantiate it?

I play RDM because it is fun, I don't play it because I delude myself into thinking that my job is actually equal to anyone else's. I just happen to have friends that don't mind having Phallanx 2 around. I would love to reward my friends with an actual job that I like playing that we could all take seriously.

[Meyi]

the only one who knows the truth is SE PERIOD. Everybody likes to think their view of a topic is the truth but that doesnt make it so necesarily. I include myself in that statement as well but we all see things how we want but whatever. Unless you yourself are part of the development team, anything anybody says is nothing but speculation without confirmation from them.

well said and 100% agreed

LOL @ this statement like you and Saevel are the authorities on all things SE and MMO.

so essentially when we attack a mob we aren't really attacking but the mob is failing a defense check.

First off, wow, couldn't this be put into one post instead of four? I know you're eager and excited with this topic, but this is a poor way to go about advertising it. If you want this topic to gain support through popularity, you should consider weighing it to other great classics, such as this topic. If it is a truly dire problem, such as cheese sandwiches, then clearly the players will swarm in and voice their concern. Quad-posting is not necessary.

Now, to answer your responses, the truth is in the math. The truth is in the programming. I don't know much about computer programming because I struggled with even the Introduction class, but I at least took a class on it and gained some basic information. Computers register things one at a time, despite how we may perceive multiple things occurring at once. That much I know and I feel it helps me understand GG and Saevel's posts well enough.

There is no magic to computers. Ever. SE are not level 99 wizards who can don their Goetia Petasos and Coats. They're human beings who code just like everyone else.

There are times when I swing while casting. But you know what? That's not actually while I'm casting; I had swung prior to starting my spell, but due to lag, it appears on my end as if the two are simultaneously occurring. Same with swinging during weapon skills and swinging during Dancer sambas. The animation may continue, but that doesn't mean the actual event that your button (macro or enter) registered was able to be processed at the exact same time the swings were.

Now, let's dance in lala land because it seems that's where everyone wants to go these days. If you could have your cheese sandwich and eat it too, how would we balance this addition to red mages? Would their melee swings completely blow while they were casting? Would their magic suck even more than it does now? Or would perhaps both be nerfed for the lulz?

In all seriousness I'd love to see this for Black Mage. I love meleeing in Campaign but struggle to melee much because I'm always busy rebuffing myself and redebuffing the monsters. If only Black Mage could gain Composure too!