Melee while casting?

[CapriciousOne]

The player isn't parrying/countering/evading/guarding... the Monster's attack actions are being parried, countered, evaded, or guarded. Do you notice the subtle difference there?

The monster is the one acting, Not the player.

There is no exception being made. Players can only perform one action at a time.

This "Computers are magic and can do anything the programmer tells them to do" junk is annoying. It's not about being creative. It's about understanding what is and what isn't a basic constriction of a game's development. There are some things that can be changed, and some things that can't.

This is one of the latter.

Unfortunately I think you still are missing the intended point. While true the player isnt acting he is indeed REACTING to multiple actions at once or at the very least one after the other. I believe that is the point he was trying to make. For the player to even react to each of the multiple attacks there has to be some sort of multiple invoked routine to deal with each of them. Personally I would love some sort of que system that execute commands in the order they are given and process them like a list. For me personally I would go even futher and implement the Gambit system from FF12 because I loved that myself, LOL.

I rarely pay attention anymore during battle as I'm so used to running the same gambit of macros against mobs now but Maybe the spells/macro I execute run so fast that it seem like we already do this to me. Then again my highest tier spell is Stone IV I think but it been a while since I played, with The Elder Scrolls Skyrim out now. Also I tend to rotate spells of the same tier as well while I await recasts so an attack or two usually makes it through during the process of casting them all. For instance, stone,water,aero,fire, thunder,blizzard III is how I like to do.

Also computers are magic and can do what the programmer tells it to do, LOL The biggest issue is the programmers understanding of what and how it needs to be done and breaking it down to a step by step process that can be translated into code. Often times when you think of every day tasks we do we often forget the baby steps that are taken to accomplish them or rather gloss over them. Even typing this message requires more than just a computer and keyboard and internet connection there are plenty of steps required to even get to that point or where only those three things are needed and even after there are more because you have to get to the website, register, etc etc. In any case this is more often the case with getting things into the game.

In addition to that lets be real they have access to the original source code of this program and most of everything we asked for can be done. Once it is designed and planned out the most that is required is either inserting a header file and function call or just defining a new procedure directly inside the module dealing with said action with an appropriate function call and just recompiling the new code. It isnt hard as much as it is time consuming.

Even still though all this would ultimately have performance implications and probably would pretty much wreak havoc with lag which is already horrible as is at times. It probably would give 360s a new bout of Red Circle of deaths. LOL More code = larger files and more commands per player yea it would be awful but it can be done plain and simple. It just a matter of how do you want this and to what extend of cost are you willing to accept to attain this feat?

[Ordoric]

place all ur concerns in the drk forum lol

[saevel]

Good ideas but your not understanding how a persistent world server works (technical name for an MMO). It's a huge database processing tens to hundreds of thousands of transactions per second. Your actions are nothing but transactions. There is a heartbeat timer that governs time, basically your attacks are just scheduled events taking place during a routine heartbeat. Things like parry / guard are just responses to the event of a monster hitting you, their not their own scheduled events. The way FFXI seems to work is they only allow one player event to be scheduled at any point in time. Now it ~can~ be made, with significant modification, so that multiple events per actor are scheduled and processed. I figure they did it this way for performance reasons.

Try not to think of the game as a pretty picture of you doing stuff but as the server processing ten thousand+ events per second and that everything you do is just an event the server process's.

[Greatguardian]

Each "Object" can only perform one action at a time.

Players can perform one action.

Monsters can perform one action.

Who these actions are performed on is irrelevant. If multiple monsters couldn't attack a player, then multiple players couldn't attack a monster.

Each action is run with respect to the Object that generated it. Each monster is able to perform their own action, one at a time, on any other Object.

Your player character does not react when guarding a monster's attack.

The monster attacks, and is met with your player's guard skill activation. That's their action, and that's how it's processed. Your character doesn't actually act at all.

I don't know how to make this any clearer for you, but it almost seems like you are intentionally failing to grasp the concept because it conflicts with what you want.

PS: Being able to throw some code into lolPython does not a programmer make. FFXI is and always will be constricted to the built-in limitations of the game's core combat engine. It was designed in such a way that no object, player or otherwise, could perform more than one action at a time - for very good reason from a development/troubleshooting standpoint.

This is not something that the Developers could change even if they wanted to. It is not something they could throw money or manpower at short of building a brand new game (hi FFXIV). That is the reality of this.

[ManaKing]

Each "Object" can only perform one action at a time.

Players can perform one action.

Monsters can perform one action.

Who these actions are performed on is irrelevant. If multiple monsters couldn't attack a player, then multiple players couldn't attack a monster.

Each action is run with respect to the Object that generated it. Each monster is able to perform their own action, one at a time, on any other Object.

Your player character does not react when guarding a monster's attack.

The monster attacks, and is met with your player's guard skill activation. That's their action, and that's how it's processed. Your character doesn't actually act at all.

I don't know how to make this any clearer for you, but it almost seems like you are intentionally failing to grasp the concept because it conflicts with what you want.

PS: Being able to throw some code into lolPython does not a programmer make. FFXI is and always will be constricted to the built-in limitations of the game's core combat engine. It was designed in such a way that no object, player or otherwise, could perform more than one action at a time - for very good reason from a development/troubleshooting standpoint.

This is not something that the Developers could change even if they wanted to. It is not something they could throw money or manpower at short of building a brand new game (hi FFXIV). That is the reality of this.

You continue to speak with conviction instead of facts that can actually disagree with how programming actually works. At this point I have to assume that you have nothing but pessimism for a self-prophesied grim future for this game, but it's just you sitting in a dark corner not willing to come out of your own preconceptions. Coding is not as set in stone as you make it sound and you are just straight wrong on this.

Could FFXI be written on such bad code that it can't be altered at all without the entire game locking up and ceasing to function? I guess that could technically be a possibility, but it't not realistic at all. SE has been making games for years, this one for over a decade. Your lack of faith in your developers is only matched by your conviction that this game can't be improved at this point. There don't need to be any miracles to continue improving this game. Just some intelligent men and women who are willing to toil over code for several months at a time.

[Shadowsong]

Could FFXI be written on such bad code that it can't be altered at all without the entire game locking up and ceasing to function?

*Yes*

How many PS2 coded games have the ability to evolve in the way you want it to? (note: this is not me saying "ps2 limitations" before anyone says that -_-)
GG (and my) lack of faith in the developers!? We have both played the game the better part of a decade, almost longer than I've been with my wife. Please, we know these people better than our families.

ITT:
An Average OF Thread-
Person 1- Tells everyone their awesome idea
Person 2-5- Tells OP they are a visionary and god's gift to FFXI
Person 6 (usually GG or Karbunkle)- Explains why idea is either A) Not physically possible or B) Brings about other problems / wouldnt solve original problem
Person 7-3456347853694- Complain about how person 6 is elitist, antisocial, and retarded (among more graphic terms)

End Result - FFXI's IQ level goes down another peg (have we hit rock bottom yet? Probably not, though with 900 RDM and SMN melee threads, we have to be pretty close)

[ManaKing]

*Yes*

How many PS2 coded games have the ability to evolve in the way you want it to? (note: this is not me saying "ps2 limitations" before anyone says that -_-)
GG (and my) lack of faith in the developers!? We have both played the game the better part of a decade, almost longer than I've been with my wife. Please, we know these people better than our families.

ITT:
An Average OF Thread-
Person 1- Tells everyone their awesome idea
Person 2-5- Tells OP they are a visionary and god's gift to FFXI
Person 6 (usually GG or Karbunkle)- Explains why idea is either A) Not physically possible or B) Brings about other problems / wouldnt solve original problem
Person 7-3456347853694- Complain about how person 6 is elitist, antisocial, and retarded (among more graphic terms)

End Result - FFXI's IQ level goes down another peg (have we hit rock bottom yet? Probably not, though with 900 RDM and SMN melee threads, we have to be pretty close)

It wonderful that you have forum posting down to a science, unfortunately we aren't talking about computer science, because then it would be relevant. If you don't think that SE can change code, then keep believing that, but why post in these threads at all? If you are so sure of yourself that nothing can be changed then why not let the other people on the forums just continue on their merry way knowing that you are clearly right?

Sounds like you enjoy I told you so's and possibly being a little bit elitist. You also write a self fulfilling prophecy as well as GG so I'll give you credit. It's a nice trap, but what does it actually accomplish for yourself and others?

[Crimson_Slasher]

Like i said, i understand limitations in an engine, but the fact we see constant exceptions, made to classify as something other than a regular action, prove it can be done, spike spells and additional effects (enspells, en-doom on monsters) are examples of these, and ignoring them is just plain stupid. As ive stated, the player doesnt technically perform another action when spikes/enspells are triggered, they are added atop, with the scripted attack event triggering them, but like a counter, or like a parry/guard/evade/block, there can simply be a check to see if the character is in range, in attack mode during a spell cast, and if it checks as yes, then it could perform some damage. Sure its complicated, time consuming, and expensive to impliment something like this, but so was retaliation, the code can be made, but dont mistake me, i am not persay for this, nor am i saying it will be done, But it can be done.

Over the years in ffxi lots of people blame ps2 limitations, the engine, and the community of this digital dinosaur of a game, but guess what? theyre still adding content, and they are still adding new monsters, gimicks, and more. I remember when people just like you great guardian came on to the messageboards proclaiming "they cant fit any more onto the ps2 harddrive, we wont have any more expansions" after wotg, and look, we got "A Crystaline Prophecy," "A Moogle Kupode'tat," "A Shantotto Ascension," and "Visions, Scars, and Heros of Abyssea." The game didnt start melting Ps2s, and the servers were adjusted, as was the game's code in ways we cant imagine. Yet here again, someone is here lecturing us with no proof, and just talking in a condesending manner. Sure i cant prove that this can be implimented, but ive offered FAR more examples of how it can be done than you have of how it cant be done. So frankly, either provide the official documentation as provided from SE, or a Third Party Source, or admit you are making educated, but not officially stated assumptions.

We know mine are assumed, lets hear about yours.

[Shadowsong]

Like i said, i understand limitations in an engine, but the fact we see constant exceptions, made to classify as something other than a regular action, prove it can be done, spike spells and additional effects (enspells, en-doom on monsters) are examples of these, and ignoring them is just plain stupid. As ive stated, the player doesnt technically perform another action when spikes/enspells are triggered, they are added atop, with the scripted attack event triggering them, but like a counter, or like a parry/guard/evade/block, there can simply be a check to see if the character is in range, in attack mode during a spell cast, and if it checks as yes, then it could perform some damage. Sure its complicated, time consuming, and expensive to impliment something like this, but so was retaliation, the code can be made, but dont mistake me, i am not persay for this, nor am i saying it will be done, But it can be done.

You are really not getting it? Everything you just said is STILL not even related to this discussion. Nothing has ever been "added" to this mechanic of one action / one target, ever. Retaliation has the same code as counter, and both are not "actions", they are responses to actions Monster-side.

Ever notice how when you cast a spell, or activate a ranged attack, or hit engage/disengage, how sometimes you character waits a second to actually do it? Like someone said earlier, the game works in "heartbeats". As you tell your character to "change modes" (casting + auto-attacking + WS + Ranged Attack + whatever) the game waits until it can change your character to that mode before it actually does it.
You wouldn't be able to add auto-attacking to any other action, because it is itself an action. Everything else described in this thread as proof of the opposite are all responses to actions, not actions, and there is no way to ghetto-code auto-attacking in the same way parry/evade/counter works

[Economizer]

Stuff like spikes spells and additional effects activating are not the same. If anything is close to remotely proving Saevel wrong, it would be that you can swap gear while casting, but I'm not sure that is really all that damning to his statements.

Moving from that, I think that more abilities like Occult Acumen would be more likely then melee while casting. I suppose the question is, why don't Red Mages have it, and why isn't there a variant for Ninjitsu, Blue Magic, Divine Magic?