Melee while casting?

[Greatguardian]

All I got from this was that you don't know what Arrays are.

Or how the server processes what we call "additional attacks".

Just so we're clear, Zanshin hits are not a second attack round or a second action. They're not even a subaction. The attack round is the action. Just because you "swing" more than once in that round does not mean there are multiple rounds going on.

Zanshin is just Double Attack with a check for a missed swing in the round.

None of that entire paragraph on Arrays made any sense at all, either. I'm sure SE uses plenty of various data structures in their code, but that doesn't really mean anything to us. Likewise, none of the examples you brought up have anything to do with Arrays... There is a sequence of checks and stats that are run whenever an action is performed successfully. Steps are just a buff. They're checked at the same time requisite MP is checked for spells.

You say "Look at Hasso and Seigan to see how complex this can be", but neither of these abilities are complex in the slightest - no, not even when combined with Zanshin. Not from a gameplay perspective, and not from a coding perspective either. No one is saying SE can't work within the bounds of their own engine. I'm saying that they can't work outside it. If you haven't gleaned from any of the posts in this thread why Zanshin and MeleeCasting are extremely different beasts that fall on completely different sides of that line, I don't know what else to tell you.

I didn't ask you to define If statements. I didn't ask you to .... attempt? to define Arrays either. For the sake of discussion, assume that the audience knows all of this. I asked how you would apply these concepts to actually do something meaningful to the existing structure.

I am not discussing alternatives. I am not discussing concepts. We've been done with concepts for a while.

I have given you a concrete model to work with.

Apply something to it.

Don't explain it to the class.

Apply. Something.

I'm not being facetious. I'm not being sarcastic. I'm telling you that dancing around the issue and talking about concepts is not going to cut it. Anyone can talk concepts.

You need to produce something concrete. I have absolutely no interest in continuing a conversation about fluff - which is sad, because this conversation would have potential if there was even a single speck of concrete alternative input on the actual topic.

[Shadowsong]

Stuff

#mymindisfulloffuck

No one is denying you dont THINK you know what you are talking about. It's apparent you have some interest in this, and you are passionate about it. But please, practice the open mindedness you preach to others to adopt.
We are trying to educate, though after 10 pages it looks more clubbing a baby seal

[ManaKing]

I contribute nothing to actual discussions.

Agreed. If you want to get childish about this, at least I contribute. What do you do?

[ManaKing]

I'll suggest actual things when I get back from work to hopefully give you a better idea about what is possible with just the 2 functions I listed. A buffing system for either double attack or spontaneity is well within the scope of this.

[Rukkirii]

Since it is possible to do a large amount of damage and elicit various effects when you stop your melee attacks and cast magic, if we were to allow melee attacks to continue throughout spell-casting, the resulting damage output would be significantly higher than that of melee jobs. Furthermore, the balance of long casting times for powerful magic spells would fall apart. Due to these reasons, we will not be changing this.

[Alhanelem]

Since it is possible to do a large amount of damage and elicit various effects when you stop your melee attacks and cast magic, if we were to allow melee attacks to continue throughout spell-casting, the resulting damage output would be significantly higher than that of melee jobs. Furthermore, the balance of long casting times for powerful magic spells would fall apart. Due to these reasons, we will not be changing this.

My only issue with the system is the delay added to your attacks that occurs when using abilities (Maybe i'm wrong here, but it also seems to apply after you finish casting a spell?)

Casting spells seems to slow you down for more than just the casting time of the spell.

Meleeing through a spellcast is silly though. Isn't this part of the reason Occult Acumen was added? To slightly offset the disadvantage of the time spent casting a spell by giving you some TP? I think the trait could be a bit more potent, but that's all that really could be done here.

(edit: I suppose that's a pointless observation when talking about RDM, but perhaps they could be granted the trait)

[Shadowsong]

My only issue with the system is the delay added to your attacks that occurs when using abilities (Maybe i'm wrong here, but it also seems to apply after you finish casting a spell?)

^
This is a valid complaint,
I think Byrth has a thread going on it right now

[Byrth]

Mages that cast powerful magics have pitiful melee, and if they're meleeing and nuking at the same time they will eventually run out of MP or get killed by AoEs. This would not have been a bad idea, but it honestly wouldn't have helped RDMs as much as they think.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

but it honestly wouldn't have helped RDMs as much as they think.

I think it's to the point that they will keep asking for everything until SE stops always saying "RDM buff... simple answer No"

[Vicious]

Holy crap its Lyltia, sup man

Staying up til 4:30 AM, getting 6 Wings from 5 Bukhis, firing my THF.