RDM's support role

[Neisan_Quetz]

Addle was added because SE was scared of mobs not being able to cast, or something.

[SpankWustler]

Addle was added because SE was scared of mobs not being able to cast, or something.

And Pining Nocturne doesn't stack with Addle because the Development Bros were scared of monsters spending too much time casting.

They really should make up their minds!

[saevel]

RDM's "support" role is.... drum roll please...

Cure IV

Cure IV

Haste

Cure IV

Cure IV

Refresh

Haste

Cure IV

Cure IV

And just keep repeating it until the sun burns out or your head explodes.

[Ophannus]

Funny because a BRD/RDM or BLM/RDM can do all of those spells and more.

In a few days BRD/SMN is gonna be the ultimate buffer cuz BRD/SMN can March and Hastega with /SMN48...

[saevel]

Funny because a BRD/RDM or BLM/RDM can do all of those spells and more.

In a few days BRD/SMN is gonna be the ultimate buffer cuz BRD/SMN can March and Hastega with /SMN48...

And now you see why RDM's are complaining in general. Everything under "support" is below 48RDM. "Enfeebles" are complete BS right now.

[Jandel]

Does support means debuffing the mob?

If this is so... why my WHM (leeched in aby) is better at enfeebling than my RDM (which is my main job)?

I'm confused... I understand why you don't want to give Cure V to RDMs. I don't understand your planning for this job. And Gravity II looks really like a wide, enormous trollface.

On a side note: I always thought RDM is the selfish mage, because apart form Refresh, his other buffs are self-target only.

[Raxiaz]

Barspells (and their respective Barspellra counterparts) shouldn't be self-target only.

RDMs need a full-time trait to increase their enfeebling potential. Saboteur is weak at once every 5 minutes.

Silence's hypothesized effect to slow casting time on partial resists could stack with Addle to make the mob have a really long cast time for some spells. I like that.

Gravity II does seem like an enormous trollface. The method Kristal proposed is a good fix.

"Zombie" mentioned before would be kind of cool actually. Casting it on normal mobs to make them have undead properties would be nifty - especially since then the occasional accidental mob-cure will have a beneficial effect instead of no effect! Though I think that would be more of a DRK or BLM thing, still, it is as useful as Addle, which would be the WHM counterpart. And what's funny is all the jobs would rarely cast these spells.

Right now it's not even worth enfeebling monsters, and it may not be the spells themselves. The monsters people normally fight either die so fast that enfeebling is a waste of MP, or they're so ridiculously strong in the first place that even if Paralyze did land it would proc maybe once before it wore off.

RDM doesn't need a reworking: the enfeebling system itself does.
o and Haste II yesprz. even if it were only 5% more it would be the bomb diggity for RDM to have, to truly fit that "support" role you want them to excel so well at.

SE says they want RDMs to be better at enfeebling. They give us (so far):
* Addle (useful in only certain situations and even then has little to no noticeable effect)
* Gravity II (decent, I suppose it's good to have 2 gravity recasts now instead of 1 :P )
* Break (nvm, maybe this is supposed to be Addle's counterpart? Though in all honesty it's like an extra stun/sleep spell, so it's not bad to have).
* Saboteur (5 min recast and little extra benefit for that cost compared to the other mages' niches).

3 new spells? 2 of which are given to other jobs? and a rather dull job ability as icing on the cake it seems. Perhaps Spontaneity could tie in with enfeebling enhancements but really.

RDM needs some lovin'.

[Economizer]

Barspells (and their respective Barspellra counterparts) shouldn't be self-target only.

SE said this:

Make it so enhancing magic AoE effects take place centered on the person targeted.

Since AoE effects are strong, the idea is that you are taking a risk by the effect being centered on the caster. Curega is an exception to this, but it is balanced through a high amount of enmity.

Gravity II does seem like an enormous trollface. The method Kristal proposed is a good fix.

She isn't the only one that suggested it. Everyone pretty much has. In fact, I think SE mentioned something about it, but I can't really find that right now.

"Zombie" mentioned before would be kind of cool actually. Casting it on normal mobs to make them have undead properties would be nifty - especially since then the occasional accidental mob-cure will have a beneficial effect instead of no effect! Though I think that would be more of a DRK or BLM thing, still, it is as useful as Addle, which would be the WHM counterpart. And what's funny is all the jobs would rarely cast these spells.

If RDM/DRK/BLM got it, it would be okay, but if it is Dark Magic, then Red Mage really should have theirs buffed in skill. The E in Divine makes sense since RDM has no native spells, but the E in Dark Magic doesn't make sense as long as Bio III is a Dark Magic spell... Having at least a C would be nice.

Saboteur (5 min recast and little extra benefit for that cost compared to the other mages' niches).

Saboteur should really give an accuracy buff if it is to stay at five minutes. Having a enfeeble under a five minute job ability get resisted feels terrible.

Perhaps Spontaneity could tie in with enfeebling enhancements but really.

Spontaneity is fine. It fits more with Red Mage's whole "Fast Cast" deal, and is the counterpart to Black Mage's mini-2hour.

-

On buffs in general, I absolutely under no circumstances want to see Temper become a targetable buff - it was mean and should stay a buff for Red Mage melee, not something Red Mage has to cast on others and watch in misery as they aren't allowed to melee... on the other hand, if a Red Mage under Composure were to have a very, very small aura effect with it when the Red Mage has their weapon drawn...

I know SE said aura effects weren't something they want to give players as much because they have no way of having mobs counter them, but if they are things monsters don't debuff against, then what is the problem? Refresh, Temper, Phalanx, Barspells, Spikes - none of these have a spell that counters them and having a (very small) aura on Red Mage would encourage people to allow Red Mages what SE has wanted for years, while still putting the Red Mage at the risk that SE seems to love for any benefit.

[saevel]

Well Paralyze II is awesome on things that don't have built-in potency reduction. Earlier I was consistently soloing VT~IT tigers for my drops. Slow II + Paralyze II + Dia III and I just owned them on RDM/NIN. Sab + Para II just rapes a monsters attack rounds.

That being said ... all current NM's are pretty much resistant to paralize. Either it lands and never procs (potency reduction) or it'll never land (straight resistance). It's pretty much useless on big stuff, as is all our enfeebles in general. Grav II is -40 evasion, that's +40 acc to everyone in the alliance, a great thing to stack with Dia III. Except due to it's movement speed effect, SE has made ALL current NM's resistant to Gravity. So again, an enfeebled that's useless on big fights.

[Patrik]

sometime i feel like SE view on rdm is "whelp, it was overpowered for years so... now it will be worthless for years! " :/ but honestly, if we are supposed to be focused on single target buffs, fine. BUT let us single target OTHER people x.x its like we are built to only play by ourselves now, and kill mobs ourselves... very... slowly... i don't care if we don't get cure V, i'm just pissed that SE said rdms will be changed more into the master of debuffs and single target buffs. so they give us 2 more debuffs, one of which they give to whm as well, the other can't land on most worthwhile mobs like every other enfeeb (which makes no sense, if we can only land debuffs on weak mobs then we don't NEED to debuff those mobs). and their answer to our buffing mastery, give us new buffs that we can only use on ourselves, and give whm the same buffs that they can AoE... essentially giving us dumbed down leftovers...

bah, ok /rageoff. just getting frustrated that my favorite job for 7+ years is now the most looked down on job out there x.x