[dev1049] Stardiver Polearm WS

[Malamasala]

The staff WS, yeah no one cares, but it's still MILES above any WS before it, and it has a cool additional effect. In my testing (on SMN) it was quite literally twice as powerful as retribution (and that was with only 3/5 merits) at 100%.

It should be miles above past WSes since they were sucktastic. I hope they boost the staff WS so it can actually start catching up to all the other weapons in the game.

[Dragonlord]

Using stardiver at the start of a fight is going to cause more damage through the added effect than the difference between it and drakesbane. So technically this WS already beats drakes in party situations.

The dev team mentioned with he release of drakes that they intentionally boosted the WS bc they felt drg needed a great WS. And it is still one of the best WS in this game.

Club and staff new WS are better than the previous because the others aren't much good to begin with (aside from hexa strike but that is main job specific). So those weapons deserve to finally have a good WS. Now drg has 2 WS that it can rotate between depending on the situation, this WS is fine by me. (Of course i won't complain if they boost stardiver either, i just don't think its necessary)

[Amador]

Using stardiver at the start of a fight is going to cause more damage through the added effect than the difference between it and drakesbane. So technically this WS already beats drakes in party situations.

The dev team mentioned with he release of drakes that they intentionally boosted the WS bc they felt drg needed a great WS. And it is still one of the best WS in this game.

Club and staff new WS are better than the previous because the others aren't much good to begin with (aside from hexa strike but that is main job specific). So those weapons deserve to finally have a good WS. Now drg has 2 WS that it can rotate between depending on the situation, this WS is fine by me. (Of course i won't complain if they boost stardiver either, i just don't think its necessary)

Going by bolds, it won't if you're just damaging your own DPS for the sake of others. 5% Crit is nothing. Oriandori provides a 10-15% we provide a mariginal 5%. So if you have a Ninja in your group, what then? It also lasts 60 seconds.

Are you really going to use a WS that damages your DPS by 5-10% per WS every min? More than likely inclined to say not.

If the Critical Hit Evasion Down -% was = to that of Orianodori then maybe. No, yes, it would be amazing then. However, sadly it isn't.

In regards to Drakesbane, when they first added it, it was actually horrible. Penta Thrust out parsed it every which way. It was so bad, it was speculated it had no bonus to crit rate at all. It was speculated to have a 0% Crit Rate Boost at 100% TP. So they adjusted it, made it better because it got flamed to heck for being so weak.

So, no Drakesbane wasn't released with a planned intention of being AMAZING. It was released as a Mythic WS which was found too weak, and augmented to meet standards.Through player feed back it was made better. Which is what I want to do here, I want to show that 1: this WS isn't all that it could be. 2: It's added effect isn't as great as people believe it is. 3: That it requires a greater boost in damage, and or some type of modification to it's added effect to be worth while.

[Dragonlord]

First on the -crit hit eva, you're comparing a sure proc to a 10% proc chance (numbers based off of bg wiki) and as with all weapon based procs the higher the lv the mob, the less likely it is to proc. Also, another job would beat out nin's damage even with this thing proccing.

Maybe drakes was tweaked, but i remember them saying they "adjusted" drakes, past tense, and people misread it as they were going to improve it.

Drakes actually doesn't have much of a crit bonus in the first place, its been tested between 5-10% at 100%tp.

Ok now, stardiver being a .75 fTP WS, really isn't necessary, just make it 1.0 across the board. Add effect is a little low, and as is, would only be beneficial in a zerg situation. Boosting this WS could bring it back to the table as a top tier DD, which is where it should be.

[Amador]

First on the -crit hit eva, you're comparing a sure proc to a 10% proc chance (numbers based off of bg wiki) and as with all weapon based procs the higher the lv the mob, the less likely it is to proc. Also, another job would beat out nin's damage even with this thing proccing.

Maybe drakes was tweaked, but i remember them saying they "adjusted" drakes, past tense, and people misread it as they were going to improve it.

Drakes actually doesn't have much of a crit bonus in the first place, its been tested between 5-10% at 100%tp.

Ok now, stardiver being a .75 fTP WS, really isn't necessary, just make it 1.0 across the board. Add effect is a little low, and as is, would only be beneficial in a zerg situation. Boosting this WS could bring it back to the table as a top tier DD, which is where it should be.

Okay, so, no. You're talking about how it's beneficial to use because of the critical hit evasion debuff it can inflict. My point and case was Ninja can do that better. In which case, using Stardiver for that very reason you defended becomes null. Which is again my case and point in saying that either that potency needs to be increased, and or revised into something better.

The whole topic on the idea of the fTP is that it indeed is a bit low. Having an fTP of 1.0 would increase damage enough so that it isn't DPS damaging for us depending on situation, so that if we are in a long fight. It becomes more so beneficial for us to actually care to use Stardiver as opposed to not. At this point, it'll be a situational dependent WS, which is something that would suck, quite frankly.

Giving the WS more use, will increase the use of it, and therefore be a fresh and new change that would actually be fun.

[Dragonlord]

Okay, so, no. You're talking about how it's beneficial to use because of the critical hit evasion debuff it can inflict. My point and case was Ninja can do that better. In which case, using Stardiver for that very reason you defended becomes null. Which is again my case and point in saying that either that potency needs to be increased, and or revised into something better.

Do we even know if these two effects stack or overwrite one another? If they stack, then drg's WS is still adding that -5%, and that nin could be replaced by a higher end DD. So my point is not null, you're still sacrificing a party slot for that nin to try and proc the effect. The effect is stronger, but not necessarily "better" bc they can't proc it immediately, drg's can.

If foldypaws is correct, then this WS is indeed lacking and the total fTP certainly needs to be raised. I'm sure some of the other WS will have the same trend. Not looking good for these lower fTP WSs.

[Krashport]

ionowhathappeneditwillnotletmedeletethispostwtf.....ohwell

[Dragonlord]

Wait a second, SE is making the subsequent hits on these new WS differ from 1 fTP? Only thing this has been done on in the past is blu multi hit spells. Would you mind posting or linking to the test data?

Edit: found the data post http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106...ndings/page98?

[Foldypaws]

It does (well, gorget does, I didn't have a matching belt), all my data is on the page Dragonlord linked above.

Even with that, you only get 3.8 fTP using both belt and gorget.

[Amador]

I saw, that's rather disappointing. But, I wonder now though what the benefit of TP Bonus then @200% and so on, if the ftp is carried on to all hits that could be something, but still. Blowing 200% TP on 1 WS instead of on 2 Drakesbane makes it garbage.

DRG doesn't have any TP bonus items like WAR does, and using a TP Bonus Magian Weapon is pointless. I wonder what the scale up ratio is TP for fTP maybe there's something we're not seeing here/ignoring.

Potential fTP increases at 125%, 150%, 200%, 225%, 250%, 275%, 300%. Maybe there's some logical rhyme and reason for this to be this way on the devs side? Or is it really just a design flaw that isn't good on practice and the dev team simply thought it'd be dandy due to a 100% WSC STR Mod?