[dev1049] Stardiver Polearm WS

[Krashport]

No one wants to use something just because it's pretty, we want things to be effective, and to give us an edge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...3WlKa6U8#t=41s There is nothing wrong w/ pretty! >.>

[Foldypaws]

Yeah, using Mighty Strikes, I just tested Stardiver to be .75 across all 4 hits. That makes this WS worthless.

Needs to be changed to 1 fTP across all 4 hits.

[Amador]

Yeah, using Mighty Strikes, I just tested Stardiver to be .75 across all 4 hits. That makes this WS worthless.

Needs to be changed to 1 fTP across all 4 hits.

Wow what? That's horrible news. It's .75 across all 4 hits? So it's completely different from all other types of Multi Hits? that's really bad... ._.;

So, yeah... Drakesbane reigns supreme yet again... /golf clap SE. BRB as I toss out my 250,000,000G relic out the window, since I actually invested in it before your pretty simplified updates.

This bites, no wonder the use of Elemental Belt/Gorget has such a dramatic effect on it.

Foldy could you by chance test to see if Gorget/Belt applies the fTP to all hits too then since this WS is a bit different?

Ignore that, I just saw your data. Blah.

Ugh. Bad news on Stardiver testing.

All under Mighty Strikes/Berserk/Hasso/Sekkanoki + RCB on Marsh Murre outside of Nashmau. Crits showed that attack was capped. (985)

Using a spear (easiest polearm I could get for WAR). D=34, fSTR=11 -> 45, 185 STR *.85=148 WSC

Without Gorget: 2363,2360,2384

34+148*3*1.11 (crit bonus 3)*1.25(piercing weak)=757 minimum, *3.75=2838 minimum if hits 2-4 were 1.0 fTP. Expected damage from 3.0 fTP between 2271 and 2384, matches what's seen.

With Gorget: 2719,2651,2715,2596

Maximum damage @ 3.1 total fTP = 2.464, cannot be 3.1 total fTP. If 3.4 total fTP, damage expected between 2573 and 2702, (order of operations? fTP slightly above .75?).

With Gorget+DA: 3352,3334,3367. Damage range for 4.25 total fTP is 3217-3378. All DA WS fit within bounds.


tl;dr: Stardiver is almost certainly .75 fTP on all hits, and gorgets/belts apply to all hits.

This WS *needs* to be adjusted or it's worthless.

[Sonshou]

No one wants to use something just because it's pretty, we want things to be effective, and to give us an edge.

What does that leaves me? I am those who use a WS just becoz it's pretty. I use Camlann in all situation knowing draksbane do better dmg, I just simply use it becoz it is pretty. Just because utility and damage is all in your head doesn't means everyone is the same.

You can voice your opinion but doesn't mean you have to attack anyone who response to your post. Becoz speaking louder doesn't make you right.

[Amador]

What does that leaves me? I am those who use a WS just becoz it's pretty. I use Camlann in all situation knowing draksbane do better dmg, I just simply use it becoz it is pretty. Just because utility and damage is all in your head doesn't means everyone is the same.

You can voice your opinion but doesn't mean you have to attack anyone who response to your post. Becoz speaking louder doesn't make you right.

I... am not attacking anyone. I'm defending my stance on the idea that this Weapon Skill as awesome as it maybe and look, is a wasted resource if it's application is non existent or too limited to effectively matter. I want the weapon skill to be better, so that in your terms we can use pretty weapon skills.

Anyways-

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Yeah, anyways.

Alhanelem, the thing is there is barely any gear at all. You realistically have Elemental Gorget, and Belt. That's it. There's nothing else gear wise that provides this to that degree.

Items such as A Moogle Kupo'D Etat helmet for example which provides WS DMG +2%, does not work the same way as +0.2 fTP. (If I'm wrong in this then O.O) but that to my knowledge is correct.

[Dragonlord]

You're correct, anything with WS+ dmg is calculated after the WS's normal formula. The best thing this WS has going for it other than the elemental gorget's/belt's fTP on all hits is the 100% str mod, still not enough to make up for the total 1 fTP lost.

[Alhanelem]

I made some changes while you were posting. To be clear, I'm NOT against tuning the WS up. When I read your post I felt at first like it was a "god dang it I want to be the strongest" type of post. That was presumptuous of me. I do however, think the WS is "not bad" as it is now and is something of an option for DRG and a great option for the other jobs.

The club WS by all accounts i've heard (I haven't tried it yet myself) is crazy good. I can almost see PLD getting it if there's a club with stats they like on it.

The staff WS, yeah no one cares, but it's still MILES above any WS before it, and it has a cool additional effect. In my testing (on SMN) it was quite literally twice as powerful as retribution (and that was with only 3/5 merits) at 100%. MNK might even be able to have some fun with it (though i doubt it would go into regular use) and Hundred Staves .

Some of these are just so unexpectedly good that I almost expect them to be taken away

[Amador]

Which is why I would expect Polearm WS to be stronger, not weaker than or below par a WS like Drakesbane. It's disappointing to see that. As you stated, a lot of these new WS's beat out and or match their Empyrean Counterparts. Which is pretty big on it's own, but some don't.

Unless the idea of this WS is that it beats out lolCamlann's Torment, if that's the case then even Skewer outside of Abyssea beats that. All in all, through my testing I found that while the WS was decent, it still didn't do enough to warrant a consistent use of it. Which meant back to Drakesbane, because to me that's just meh at this point. It's been too long. I'm already starting to see new gear being released that will further improve upon Drakesbane on a ridiculous level.

Where is that going to leave something like Stardiver? More like Stardust at that point.Where is that going to leave any type of practicality for self skill chains or actual tactics outside of constant trigger happy spam?

I'm all for new gear, I'm all for new content. But as I stated in another post, these weapon skills are clearly meant to be strong, so why not? Leave the Mythic to do it's job and beef Drakesbane by 15%, it doesn't mean this WS has to remain 20% weaker just because it'll hurt the 1% Mythic Population out there.

We're the 99% damnz it. OCCUPY WHITEGATE.

[hiko]

stardriver is the strongest polearm WS







for sam!

I'm all for new gear, I'm all for new content. But as I stated in another post, these weapon skills are clearly meant to be strong, so why not? Leave the Mythic to do it's job and beef Drakesbane by 15%, it doesn't mean this WS has to remain 20% weaker just because it'll hurt the 1% Mythic Population out there.

you're wrong here, having a WS better than mythic one doesn't hurt mythic owner but boost them even more (especially drg and sam) mythicWS for oa2-3 aftermatch then spam stronger WS for 3min

[Amador]

you're wrong here, having a WS better than mythic one doesn't hurt mythic owner but boost them even more (especially drg and sam) mythicWS for oa2-3 aftermatch then spam stronger WS for 3min

It in no way makes the 1% Mythic Population. Non-sense aside, Ryunohige currently is the most devastating weapon Dragoon has in it's arsenal should it care to invest in it.

Bolstering Drakesbane by 15% DAMAGE alone. Occasionally attacking TWICE or THRICE at a 40/40/20 Ratio. Being able to process it's Twice/Thrice attack rate on Weapon Skills.

How does making Stardiver stronger influence anything Ryunohige Drakesbane gives? It doesn't because Ryunohige as a weapon is ridiculously over powered for what it is and gives. No one in their right mind would care to use anything other than Drakesbane as is by having Drakesbane for the simple fact of how much stronger it becomes with Ryunohige, so that statement is completely false!

Now if the idea is to focus and mitigate based on Relics/Mythics/Empyreans. Drakesbane has already taken care of writing Relic/Empyrean out of the show for Polearm for a long time now. Will continue to do so, because Relic and Empyrean Polearm lack balance.

Now as far as Staff Weapon Skill is concerned or Club for that matter, or most of the other ones. It's exactly like that, they're meant to beat out their competition, at this point. Is there a specific and key reason as to why Stardiver shouldn't? It doesn't hinder the use of other WS, and if the idea is to focus on that then the Dev team needs to focus on Relic/Empyrean and realize that Skewer, and Penta Thrust alone have been able to out do those for years.