[dev1049] Stardiver Polearm WS

[Amador]

Hello,

I've been doing a lot of testing regarding this WS on the test server and I ran across a number of other threads when they stated, that we are actually able to submit feedback and recommend certain changes be made to the weapon skills if need be.

After much much much testing, I've come to the conclusion that this weapon skill requires a boost in power.

To our current knowledge this WS is: 100% STR Modifier, along with a .75 or .85 fTP modifier on first hit.

I believe that even an adjustment of making it 1.0 or 1.25 Modifier would make this Weapon Skill really worthwhile.

This is the first weapon skill in a long time that Dragoon has gotten that is able to actually be used and used well in practicality. It provides a substantial boost to Crit Rate through it's debuff of lowering the enemies critical hit evasion.

It's sad to view and compare a WS like this against something like Drakesbane, and see that Drakesbane still pulls ahead. Strengthening this won't weaken Drakesbane by any means and users who own Ryunohige will still benefit even more so from it.

However, for those of us who have been playing a while... I myself, am tired of seeing Drakesbane. It's a WS that is nearly 5 years old. It needs to be replaced by something, even if it's a marginal replacement.

So, my feed back is. The WS is amazing, I love how it looks I am content with what it can provide, but I want it to provide more.

I want the fTP on first hit to be raised, and or for the Critical Evasion debuff be changed from it's current 5-10% to 15% static, nah I'll go for broke. I want both. ^-^

Please?

[Alhanelem]

in other words, it's actually good enough.

[Foldypaws]

in other words, it's actually good enough.

A bunch of other jobs are getting WS that are better than the stuff they already had, and I don't think DRG is dominating parses like WAR or MNK and so only deserve a sidegrade.

It's not the weakest of the new WS, but it's definitely only mediocre.

[Amador]

in other words, it's actually good enough.

No not really.

You can find my testing here: http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/27...diver-testing/

This is what the test server is for, it's to comment and speak up when something isn't as it should be and to give the devs feed back for it.

Being good enough as is still means that it'll more than likely simply be a Sekkanoki addition, to continue spamming Drakesbane. That's pretty lame given how amazing this WS looks. It'd be a wasted resource for it to simply be second best.

Drakesbane will continue to destroy it within Abyssea, understandably so. Outside of Abyssea I would like for it to pack more of a punch. .75 fTP is really terrible. Very low. The only thing that saves it currently from not being terrible is the simple fact that it's 100% STR WSC.

Even a .25 fTP increase or .50 would make this WS shine.

It doesn't break the game, it simply leaves the Mythic to excel with Drakesbane. People without Mythic can excel with this.

[Amador]

A bunch of other jobs are getting WS that are better than the stuff they already had, and I don't think DRG is dominating parses like WAR or MNK and so only deserve a sidegrade.

It's not the weakest of the new WS, but it's definitely only mediocre.

Worded perfectly, that really is the reality of it all. Dragoon received a WS that simply marginally makes Drakesbane better. Which under certain circumstances will render the use of Stardriver to nil. Making it DPS damaging and a bad choice of WS.

Current testing does show that the majority of other weapon skills are in fact, very strong. Why shouldn't ours be too?

[Atomic_Skull]

It's a WS that is nearly 7 years old.

... wut?

[Tagrineth]

Uh... TAU was released in 2006, so TAU as a whole is only 5 years old, and Nyzul wasn't released immediately. I think it was almost a year before they added Nyzul. Were the weapon skills released immediately with Nyzul? I think they were. So Drakesbane is more like 4 years old.

[Amador]

Well thank you for that fine correction, but it doesn't mean the weapon skills and the content wasn't already there. It was simply unlocked over time.

So that aside, alright, 2006 still nearly 6 year difference. Let's say it was a year, 5 year difference. It's still 5 freaking years of the same WS. Point and case? What's the difference between 6 or even 7 years compared to 5 at this point? I'll make the corrections as need be though!

As for the time line if it was in fact: ToAU Expansion -> Nyzul.

2006 - ToAU
2007 - Nyzul so, not a 4 year difference since they did release everything Nyzul related when they released Nyzul.
2008-2010 - Einherjar -> The rest of ToAU -> Odin/Alexander
2011-2012 - Nyzul II Revamp


Now... any creative criticism, personal experience with this weapon skill, rebuttal and or sound evidence to show that this WS is fine as it is due to some special findings?

[Alhanelem]

It's fine. So it's not jaw droppingly amazing. So what?

What I'm more interested to know is it's SC properties. does it fill any hole in what polearm is able to provide?

Weapon skills were not designed the same way as spells - e.g. they weren't designed to all become obsolete as soon as you got the next one. They were designed either to excel in different situations, or at least cover different skillchain possibilities. Some vary more wildly in damage in others (crit WS), others are more stable. Some deal magic damge, others don't. Some have additional effects (most/all of the new ones do I think?) and trade off some damage for it. Only the first few WS learned are generally completely inferior (even then, that's not totally true- for some jobs the first WS you learn is stronger in damage than several learned after it)

I'll honestly be suprised if some of the better WS don't get nerfed prior to the official release of the update. Some of them are ridiculously good compared to older ones (e.g. staff, club), and deservedly so considering the previous options, but I'm predicting these to be nerfed....

Don't get me wrong. I won't mind it at all if the polearm WS were to be buffed. I guess just color me bugged by the subtly demanding nature of your post.

[Amador]

It's fine. So it's not jaw droppingly amazing. So what?

What I'm more interested to know is it's SC properties. does it fill any hole in what polearm is able to provide?

Weapon skills were not designed the same way as spells - e.g. they weren't designed to all become obsolete as soon as you got the next one. They were designed either to excel in different situations, or at least cover different skillchain possibilities. Some vary more wildly in damage in others (crit WS), others are more stable. Some deal magic damge, others don't. Some have additional effects (most/all of the new ones do I think?) and trade off some damage for it. Only the first few WS learned are generally completely inferior (even then, that's not totally true- for some jobs the first WS you learn is stronger in damage than several learned after it)

I'll honestly be suprised if some of the better WS don't get nerfed prior to the official release of the update. Some of them are ridiculously good compared to older ones (e.g. staff, club), and deservedly so considering the previous options, but I'm predicting these to be nerfed....

Let's go by the bolds.

So what? The test server and these forums are meant to provide feed back to the dev team in order to better provide us with a good product. Which is something we all buy every month. These weapon skills which are in testing, are all getting feedback, not just Stardiver. This is my feed back towards the WS so that the dev can analyze their data and come to a conclusion.

SC properties Stardiver and all the other Weaponskills seem to have very low level Weapon Skill properties and in Stardivers case it at best does Gravitation. Soil Gorget affects its. Etc etc.

They were designed either to excel in different situations Correct. My point in all this is to state that while Stardiver is a good 2nd best to Drakesbane, it's functionality will be limited greatly. In other words, it's hardly going to get any use at all.

The nature of the type of WS that it is implies it so, it's a non crit WS for one. Meaning? Won't be used in Abyssea, ever. Outside of testing. On anything that matters, while it may provide a decent average, Drakesbane will still spike higher. In Voidwatch, through the use of Champion's Tonic and through the use of a SINGLE and or periodic Stardiver, you'll still continue to spam Drakesbane.

I'm predicting these to be nerfed I really hope not, these WS's are gorgeous, and to have invested so much time and work into making them look as amazing as they do to turning around and making them completely worthless will be a mistake.

If you have access to the test sever, or if you want to review my data on the testing I did, you'll see that the WS could do more. Maybe it will in the future through better gear, etc. However, it'd be nice if it was released with a little more punch as is.

I actually want to use this WS, I want something fresh. It's not about "being okay with it". It's about actually testing, reviewing and thinking tactfully how you'd apply this in a given situation on 11. My bone with it, is that it probably won't get much use out of it.

No one wants to use something just because it's pretty, we want things to be effective, and to give us an edge.