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  1. #141
    Player Annalise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    161
    Character
    Annalise
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Make skillchains increase drop rates. Problem solved, people use them now.

    Enjoy your Blade: Rin > Wasp Sting > Distortion skillchains for maximum skillchains on a target.

    Honestly though for me... it comes down to this.

    Know your skillchain properties. Don't make plans to set them up, but if something comes along that could be useful, utilize it. That's more complicated than setting up skillchains, or just spamming TP.

    Example:
    BST and PUP.
    BST uses ruinator and I am closing in on 100 TP. I know that ruinator is distortion.
    I am using Victory Smite mainly, which is fragmentation. I also have Stringing Pummel, which is gravitation. Victory Smite and Stringing Pummel are pretty comparable.

    If I use Victory Smite, no skill chain happens and I just go on punching things (while Koumei keeps curing me, or casting silence over and over and over and over if the mob has MP [Hi Qilin!]). If I use Stringing Pummel, I make darkness and potentially do a chunk more damage.

    TP spam rather than skillchain planning has been shown mathematically to be more effective, and skillchains are usually accidental and a nice bonus. However, if you know your skillchain properties when random opportunities arise, you can take it slightly further. It's all within reason, though. If you are on PUP and have Shijin Spiral (fusion) and no Pummel/smite, if someone uses a fusion weaponskill, DO NOT use dragon kick to make light because combined the damage will probably be less even if light isn't resisted.

    In an alliance setting this usually doesn't matter because by the time you use a weaponskill you can skillchain with, someone else probably already weaponskilled. With less people though, this becomes more viable.

    tl;dr: skillchain < tp burn @ 100 < tp burn @ 100 with random bonus skillchain damage < tp burn @ 100 with knowledge of skillchain properties to use at an advantage rather than random luck
    (3)

  2. #142
    Player Mirage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,980
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustic View Post
    In part, requiring skillchains would actually be one of the best checks to sheer zerg damage in the game.

    Imagine if bigger NM's (or HNM's) took vastly reduced physical/magical damage off the bat. Skillchains would "crack" the defense temporarily, allowing for normal physical damage. Likewise magic bursts for magical damage. FAILING to close and/or MB would restore the defenses in question as the mob "turtled up". Broad-spectrum (Darkness/Light) SC's would create the shortest windows of vulnerability, while specific element ones would produce longer openings for normal damage, namely whichever matched the mob's elemental weakness. For MB's, it'd be based on how much MP went into the spell producing the MB- SC'ing Dia for a Light SC would only produce a few seconds of magical vulnerability, while Holy II would leave the target open for a much longer period of time.

    Say it's a giant Orc NM. Orcs have Water weakness. Say, a Darkness SC would produce a 10 second window where normal damage was full. A Distortion SC would be 20. A Reverberation would be 30. MBing a Water-type spell on the target would cause magical vulnerability beyond the period of the magic burst for an amount of time between 2-30 seconds depending on the strength of the MB'd spell. Firing off a WS that isn't SC'd would reset the defense immediately after the window to close it failed, failing to MB a SC would reset magic defense.

    Even if a mob doesn't have a specific weakness to an element, it can be simply given a generic "break" from SC/MB, possibly reduced vs. mobs that have a specific weakness- and the time breaks are effective for can be varied, to make that mob more or less challenging. Normal mobs could have a similar system- only instead of being a defense break, it leaves the mob vulnerable to additional damage. Closing a SC would increase regular damage rather than remove an exceptional defense for a period of time, and MBing would leave the mob with a magical vulnerability beyond the normal length of an MB- and failing to close an SC/MB would only remove the vulnerability while leaving the mob at normal levels of damage/defense for it's type, rather than giving it superior defenses.

    Gotta be something to give combat more sense and reason than "spam your highest DPS at the mob", or else it's all zerg, all the time. It's not like enmity is much of an issue now either...
    Sounds like staggering in FF13/-2. I'm not opposed to the idea.
    (1)

  3. #143
    Player Pebe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    128
    Character
    Bepe
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    SCH Lv 99
    How I think current magic Burst System could be made more useful:

    Currently Magic Bursts increase magic accuracy and magic damage.

    So if there were NMs in the game that took very little physical damage, like turtles, but had very high magic resists rates but took good magic damage, like aspid way back in the day. People would have to use the skillchain system to kill it efficiently, either that use non-physical/magical damage sources like spirits within/requiescat, or i guess tomahawk rotations, but even then magic bursts would be the most efficient of the 3.

    How I think magic Bursts could be changed:
    I believe Magic Bursts should redirect the enmity of all damage done to the person who opened or closed(probably closed would be better) the skillchain. You could even make this exceed the hate cap then decay over time back down to hate cap. Wouldn't this be an interesting way to bring PLD back into the mix for holding hate even when other DDs are beating on the mob?
    (0)

  4. #144
    Player Laraul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    140
    Character
    Laraul
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    SAM Lv 97
    You people really think that SCs and MBs we're "necessary"? Sure people tried using them in exp parties. But they quickly learned that because SCs are so tricky to pull of without something going wrong they gave up completely. To make matters worse the game never let's you know when you may perform a skill chain, or what weapon or skills qualify for a skill chain. Even if people once did do SCs and MBs, they now know that they aren't worth the effort.

    You want to bring this back, then maybe it's time the game made SCs and MBs practical. The game needs to tell you when a weaponskill should be performed to create an SC so you don't go at the wrong time. I mean c'mon. This is OBVIOUS right? Because that's all people do when they attempt to skillchain in a group. Perform it at the WRONG time.
    (1)

  5. #145
    Player Kari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    284
    Character
    Aisaka
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    The only content that this could possibly be "required" or even "good", would be 6-man or lower content.
    With anything higher, it would just be an annoying system like proccing.

    However, if they made it so SC/MB did a good amount of damage, it would be lovely to see it welcomed back into lowman content.
    (0)
    /人 ‿‿ 人\


  6. #146
    Player ManaKing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    940
    Character
    Iocus
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    I don't believe you know what you are talking about. SC > MB was the way most people originally XP partied at the beginning of this game. There are charts and info everywhere on how to do it properly.
    (0)
    I'm a RequieSCAT-MAN!

  7. #147
    Player Annalise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    161
    Character
    Annalise
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by ManaKing View Post
    I don't believe you know what you are talking about. SC > MB was the way most people originally XP partied at the beginning of this game. There are charts and info everywhere on how to do it properly.
    True, yet arrow burns (RNG/NIN x 4, BRD, RDM) and Manaburns (RDM, BLM x4-5, potentially a bard) back then were also considered better, and they generally did not follow the SC > MB format. Especially arrow burns which were essentially like TP burns. You could SC of course, but the ones my bard was in didn't bother. And the EXP of those (before the RNG nerf) was pretty top notch compared to anything else, even manaburns.
    (2)

  8. #148
    Player Schrute's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    25
    Character
    Schrute
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    BLM Lv 99
    Skillchains were necessary under the right context and those who think otherwise I would love to hear the counter examples. My example would be ksnm99 where the best strategy we used at lvl 75 was skill chain at 60% and have an army of blackmages magic burst the piss out of it, because it takes off for flight leaving most front line jobs useless during this time. Magic bursting added in more damage for when it went into flight and forcing it to land faster.

    I'm sure ls's who had people with completed relics of various kinds could probably zerg it down, but none the less, this was one of the best strategies for this fight.

    Another example would be fighting nidhog at 75. I would love to see a video of nidhog zerged with out PD or relic holders. I'm sure there are videos out there, but the basic strategy we used for nid was skillchians magic bursting. The main reason, because wings did about 300 AOE dmg, this could be offset with capped stoneskin, blm's could hit this cap with the right gear and enhancing skill. Having few DD that could make frag or light, this was essential to for feeding the mob as little tp as possible so that wings weren't spammed. I for one really enjoyed this strategy, especially double thunder weather on thunders day, breaking 3k back then on magic burst was just insane, but it also meant you were a dead taru lol.

    If SE wanted to really send us back to the stoneage of developing stratagies I would love to see Fanatics drinks gone in VW. of course zerging can still be done as long as procs are called out and executed, but if those were gone as well, as well as PD getting nerfed. I know PD is not getting as big as nerf as it could have been but it did prevent people from just lvling smn on mules to sit and wait to PD.

    Tiamat. We used skillchains and just flat out nuking and rotated blm's that capped hate>logged out completley and continued the battle. Would love to see a video of tiamat zerged at lvl75 as well. I sure there are videos of this as well but how many shells could do it? Been so long since i fought tiamat and when it was lvl 75, i can't remember if it was dmg or just timed intervals of flight or being on the ground.

    In my opinion, as I have stated many times in other posts, keep the window for magic bursting to remain open and not just close when another WS goes off. Hell keep multiple windows open for magic bursting, blms could use the over all boost.

    PS EDIT: I'm sure a lot of battle like nighog could be zerged with chainspell stuns ect. don't want to get chewed out for leaving that out
    (0)
    Last edited by Schrute; 01-24-2013 at 11:56 AM.

  9. #149
    Player Teakwood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst!
    Posts
    41
    Character
    Teakwood
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    BLM Lv 90
    God yes. I've had my fingers crossed for an incentive to SC+MB again... literally since the beginning of ToAU era, it's pretty much the only thing I turn into a nostalgic goofass about.

    Wouldn't really like to see any of these ideas rolled out in existing content but it'd be -amazing- if Adoulin gave SC+MB a reason to exist again.
    (1)

  10. #150
    Player Trumpy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    451
    Character
    Trumpy
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    its always was fun to me to set up a SC and MB and the hilarity when one thing would prevent it from happening from one of the participants. every now and then its nice to see if doing a SC will "one shot" (i know its more like 3 shot but im talking bout the stategy as a whole) a mob when i am doin things with friends. But lately this aspect is satiated within me by a few of my jobs that can self SC.
    (0)

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