Hey remember SC > MB? Make it required.

[Demios]

My solution is to get rid of the timing restrictions on SC/MB. If 2 DD's WS back to back or 30 seconds apart, it should still make a SC, if a mage tries to MB 1 second after SC closes, or 30 seconds after it should still proc MB. This way SC/MB would almost be automatic given the right WS's are used to make a SC, and the right spell hits to make a MB. Generally in zerg setups people will just be spamming anyway, so why not just let those WS's make SC's for extra damage, and why not let the mage's have the freedom to cast their MB proc spell anytime after the SC has hit as long as a new SC doesnt overrule it. The DD's would be zerging, while the mages nuke anyway, why not make it so that if they happen to line up correctly that you get the extra damage from it, if not, meh no biggie they were spamming anyway regardless. This way people who want to use SC/MB would have an easier time setting it up and implementing it, while the Zerg crowd would only take advantage of the damage benefits if they stumble on the skillchain while tearing through ws's.

[Fupafighter]

My solution is to get rid of the timing restrictions on SC/MB. If 2 DD's WS back to back or 30 seconds apart, it should still make a SC, if a mage tries to MB 1 second after SC closes, or 30 seconds after it should still proc MB. This way SC/MB would almost be automatic given the right WS's are used to make a SC, and the right spell hits to make a MB. Generally in zerg setups people will just be spamming anyway, so why not just let those WS's make SC's for extra damage, and why not let the mage's have the freedom to cast their MB proc spell anytime after the SC has hit as long as a new SC doesnt overrule it. The DD's would be zerging, while the mages nuke anyway, why not make it so that if they happen to line up correctly that you get the extra damage from it, if not, meh no biggie they were spamming anyway regardless. This way people who want to use SC/MB would have an easier time setting it up and implementing it, while the Zerg crowd would only take advantage of the damage benefits if they stumble on the skillchain while tearing through ws's.

You know Magic bursting isn't hard. Spells like thunder 5 and bliz 5 take what, 5 seconds with proper gear? Legion is the only thing I can think of that would even matter to use MB. And in those situations, DD aren't zerging. So just ask the sams to help you setup, I'll gladly open or close to help setup a MB, and so will many other people if it means we aren't failing content lol.

[Llana_Virren]

My solution is to get rid of the timing restrictions on SC/MB. If 2 DD's WS back to back or 30 seconds apart, it should still make a SC, if a mage tries to MB 1 second after SC closes, or 30 seconds after it should still proc MB.

I'm going to go on an extreme here, and suggest that essentially, performing a Fusion SC would permanently give a bonus to Fire and Light damage for the remainder of the fight?

I think that the amount of time between WSs could be adjusted (perhaps), and that the duration of a Magic Burst window be extended, but certainly not for anything beyond 10-12 seconds. Otherwise, you're gonna have each BLM in a group single-handedly double-MBing Thunaja, Firaja, etc.... no, that'd be a little -too- much.

On the other hand, it would be interesting if new SCs (with these extended weakness times) required multiple SCs without an interim SC.
For example: Instead of WS1 -> WS2 (SC Lv1) -> WS3 (SC Lv2)
Or: WS1 -> WS2 (SC Lv2)
You could have: WS1 -> WS2 (Special Effect trigger without a SC) -> WS3 (SC Lv3 only if previous trigger is initated)
Or: You could require a certain SC to proc in order to remove a physica/magical barrier effect....

This however, complicates the DD coordination greatly, and with the current mechanics in place, zerg will continue to surpass SC/MB relevance.

You'd need some -serious- overhaul to SCs to change that.

[Xihp]

I haven't read completely through all 13 pages of this thread, BUT I think the most simple solution would just be increasing the effectiveness of SC.


Basically:
Keep - all the setups, combinations, skillchains, the magic bursts, and even the timings the same. (Although a little more leeway on timing would be nice, even a second for laggers).
But simply change the damage of skillchains or the damage bonus of magic bursts and maybe reduce the enemy's stats.

Imagine a simple Scission, an earth elemental based effect, which lowers the opponents Dexterity, which is commonly associated with the lightning element.

Now imagine Dark/Light skillchains. Which would lower more of the enemy's stats.

Now that is just weapon skills. Physical Damage - Physical Stats reduced.

Next step would be Magic Bursts.

Let's say the first Scission is MB'd with a Stone 1. This should increase the enemy's damage cap taken against Lightning based attacks.

This would lead to another round of Skillchaining and Magic Bursting. The team would need to rotate weaponskills to create a SC to take advantage of the new Lightning weakness.

Of course this is still a lot of planning and understanding of mechanics, but it would definitely be worthwhile against harder enemies and missions.

So maybe update the cap of damage of skillchains. Example: level 1: 100%, level 2:200%, level 3:300%

Although this may seem like a drastic increase, how often do you ever see a skillchain involving more than 2/3 weapon skills?

2 Members spam Weaponskills for maximizing their own damage...

OR

2 Members spending the extra 30 seconds for each other and coordinating a proper and VERY effective skillchain to maximize the overall damage.

From what I've seen the 30 seconds is too much for just a 100% bonus damage SC, when they could just burn the TP and do another WS for just the same amount.

This is why increasing the damage and creating an alluring incentive for people where they can see the significance of teamwork.

[Llana_Virren]

Here's the problem: WS spam alone would create multiple Light SCs (with far fewer difficulties than lowering WS damage o accommodate a SC), and since the Tier 3 SCs are supposed to be more powerful, this would still keep "mandatory SCs" out of relevance.

However, you could make it so that Lv1 SCs lower/temporarily remove magic immunity to an element, Lv2 SCs increase Macc and MATK to an element, and Lv3 SCs lower stats.

[Xihp]

Here's the problem: WS spam alone would create multiple Light SCs (with far fewer difficulties than lowering WS damage o accommodate a SC), and since the Tier 3 SCs are supposed to be more powerful, this would still keep "mandatory SCs" out of relevance.

However, you could make it so that Lv1 SCs lower/temporarily remove magic immunity to an element, Lv2 SCs increase Macc and MATK to an element, and Lv3 SCs lower stats.

Sounds like every lazy FFXI player. If they increased the damage and gave us some incentive to switch up our weaponskills, then people wouldn't be so focused on "The easiest way to do decent damage is spam my 1 favorite weaponskill that does big damage". No player wants to use a lesser weaponskill to skillchain with their team just for a magic burst that does mediocre damage. They should just increase the SC damage.

The reason we used to do SC->MB was because that extra 65% damage on a skillchain was AWESOME. Setting up that magic burst with a Tachi: Enpi -> SATA Viper Bite -> Distortion Damage -> Magic Burst.

Back then we NEEDED the extra damage, but most players now kill everything so fast, we forget the option is there until a boss fight. And even then, most players don't bother. Most of the time because we focus on procs first, then by the time we finish our procs, the mob is almost dead and we zerg it down. No point in spending that 15 seconds on a SC if that 15 seconds is all it takes to kill the mob.

What if.... Skillchains add a TH effect?! :O Teamwork points or something. Like a hidden counter on the mob, increasing drop rates or exp or something.

[Zerich]

Sounds like every lazy FFXI player. If they increased the damage and gave us some incentive to switch up our weaponskills, then people wouldn't be so focused on "The easiest way to do decent damage is spam my 1 favorite weaponskill that does big damage".

or you could just make an empy weapon for your DD and use that WS (they all have Light or Dark properties). VOILA!
SC-baby!

[Llana_Virren]

Sounds like every lazy FFXI player. If they increased the damage and gave us some incentive to switch up our weaponskills, then people wouldn't be so focused on "The easiest way to do decent damage is spam my 1 favorite weaponskill that does big damage". No player wants to use a lesser weaponskill to skillchain with their team just for a magic burst that does mediocre damage. They should just increase the SC damage.

The reason we used to do SC->MB was because that extra 65% damage on a skillchain was AWESOME. Setting up that magic burst with a Tachi: Enpi -> SATA Viper Bite -> Distortion Damage -> Magic Burst.

Back then we NEEDED the extra damage, but most players now kill everything so fast, we forget the option is there until a boss fight. And even then, most players don't bother. Most of the time because we focus on procs first, then by the time we finish our procs, the mob is almost dead and we zerg it down. No point in spending that 15 seconds on a SC if that 15 seconds is all it takes to kill the mob.

What if.... Skillchains add a TH effect?! :O Teamwork points or something. Like a hidden counter on the mob, increasing drop rates or exp or something.

These would have been great suggestions 5 years ago when they would have been utilized. The current (and foreseen) environment would not be conducive to these ideae, however. Procs > TH, and Proc > SC. I suggested on a RDM topic that perhaps certain WSs or abilities, when used in a combination (ie SC or chained abilities) woudl temporarily remove NM immunities.

However "nice" and "innovative" these ideas may be, the mechanics of the game simply don't make them relevent.