Hey remember SC > MB? Make it required.

[Shadowsong]

"my money is as good as your money argument"? Why would anyone even use that in this case.
First of all, why are we discussing how applicable a mechanic was at the beginning of the game? Who cares what we used to do?
Also, who is complaining when things take teamwork? When teamwork makes me stronger, why would I not want to do it? Why are you creating enemies?

Yes, back when the game first came out people used Skillchains................ until people figured out fighting ITs in exp was retarded. Also, back then we didnt know pDEF/pVIT/ect, parse results, stat caps, detailed DPS calculations, intimate game mechanic knowledge, the importance of Haste and Double Attack, proper sub job combinations, proper food choices, the importance of certain BRD songs over others, pigeonholded utility jobs, you see where I'm going with this?

There is nearly 8 years of game data and information availible to anyone now. Back in the day, you just did whatever your party leader told you to do. And come on, one shotting a robber crab with a Freeze SC seemed pretty badass in 2005. It didn't matter that the crab before that took 5 minutes because you were too scared to use your TP and your BLM was resting MP from constant Ancient Magic.

[Theytak]

Zergs started making their way in to exp in late '05, after the fall of Rng. Everyone who jumped off the rng bandwagon suddenly had to go back to the non-rng style of WS WS SC MB and found it to be incredibly slow. I remember the first time I had a non-SC party, around 65 in bibiki bay. I had just started doing Dragon Kick to open for light in my previous party, so I was expecting as much this time around, but instead I was met with "Nah, just go balls to the wall and ws when you get TP". Totally blew my mind, but it was a lot less stressful. By the time I hit 75 it had caught on as the more popular method for exp, though SCs were still fairly common (this was just after ToAU came out).

Zergs in End Game are totally different though, and are something that requires a lot more work and preparation than you guys give them credit. No way in fuck could Joe-shmoe AH Melee walk in to a zerg and be of ANY benefit. The reason they hadn't been used before they were was because they weren't even POSSIBLE before. Hitting the haste cap was a pipe-dream for some jobs, and utterly impossible for the rest, due to the relatively limited gear selections at the time. After ToAU came out and made haste gear somewhat more readily available to the stronger zerg jobs, and we got Cat 2 merits, and such, mages started being more well informed about their abilities, people started getting bored of the old slow fights and decided to experiment, and found something that worked.

Don't you remember how unbelievable it was the first time you heard about someone zerging kirin in under 2 minutes? I thought it was a hoax. Then I saw the video and shat myself, lol. Then other groups tried to copy this strategy, and failed miserably. The vast majority couldn't do it, because they didn't have the gear and experience to pull it off.

Fast forward to today and zerg strats are fairly common and easy to pull off due to the higher levels and better availability of gear.

Personally, I enjoy both styles; long and drawn out fights where you slowly whittle down the NM while trying not to be annihilated, and also NMs where everyone just fucking goes apeshit after getting every maxed out buff possible and trying to kill the fucker as fast as humanly possible because any other strategy just doesn't work due to how insanely obnoxious the NMs TP moves are or due to time restraints, examples being Dynamis Lord before the overhaul, and pretty much every boss in Einherjar.

[Shinzonx]

I was refering to the main poster saying make people download skype vent or w/e most people dont like those programs and some can mess up your pc i dont like to have to click from one screen to another to talk through a mic when i can just type what i want to say dont want to read stop being lazy

[Theytak]

I was refering to the main poster saying make people download skype vent or w/e most people dont like those programs and some can mess up your pc i dont like to have to click from one screen to another to talk through a mic when i can just type what i want to say dont want to read stop being lazy

the only way a voice chat program would mess up your PC is if you were stupid enough to not pay attention to where you download it from, or if you some how manage to go out of your way to accidentally sabotage it.... Also it's not even remotely fair to call using voice chat over text chat lazy when voice chat is faster, clearer, and makes organizing strategy 100x easier. It has nothing to do with not wanting to read, and everything to do with the fact that people can talk and react to a volatile situation 10x faster over voice chat due to the way the human brain works. I mean if you're deaf or a robot, I could understand, but otherwise it'll always be better to be able to hit 1 extra button while trying to save someone's ass to tell people what your'e doing than trying to do it while typing it out and thus hindering your ability to do your job properly, or not saying anything and hindering communication.

If anything I want to ask you to stop being lazy and learn the definition of a run on sentence... or learn how to use some punctuation.

[Chriscoffey]

"my money is as good as your money argument"? Why would anyone even use that in this case.
First of all, why are we discussing how applicable a mechanic was at the beginning of the game? Who cares what we used to do?
Also, who is complaining when things take teamwork? When teamwork makes me stronger, why would I not want to do it? Why are you creating enemies?

Yes, back when the game first came out people used Skillchains................ until people figured out fighting ITs in exp was retarded. Also, back then we didnt know pDEF/pVIT/ect, parse results, stat caps, detailed DPS calculations, intimate game mechanic knowledge, the importance of Haste and Double Attack, proper sub job combinations, proper food choices, the importance of certain BRD songs over others, pigeonholded utility jobs, you see where I'm going with this?

There is nearly 8 years of game data and information availible to anyone now. Back in the day, you just did whatever your party leader told you to do. And come on, one shotting a robber crab with a Freeze SC seemed pretty badass in 2005. It didn't matter that the crab before that took 5 minutes because you were too scared to use your TP and your BLM was resting MP from constant Ancient Magic.

Therein lies your problem my parties weren't holding TP for long periods because you weren't attacking on melee like a speed demon due to what Theytak mentioned earlier about gear/abilities. This has been said numerous times , however, noone seems to understand this but older players. The players stating people were holding TP forever are the same ones that never detail their rebuttal proving otherwise.

I know a few times some jobs were holding TP but it wasn't for long maybe 1-3 rounds and as mentioned before you still were doing damage. The end result was better MB damage which more than compensated the alliance with better damage boost. I know way more than i know now but that still doesn't change the simple fact GEAR OR ABILITIES TO ZERG WASN'T READILY AVAILABLE FOR YEARS like it is today.

[Chriscoffey]

Zergs started making their way in to exp in late '05, after the fall of Rng. Everyone who jumped off the rng bandwagon suddenly had to go back to the non-rng style of WS WS SC MB and found it to be incredibly slow. I remember the first time I had a non-SC party, around 65 in bibiki bay. I had just started doing Dragon Kick to open for light in my previous party, so I was expecting as much this time around, but instead I was met with "Nah, just go balls to the wall and ws when you get TP". Totally blew my mind, but it was a lot less stressful. By the time I hit 75 it had caught on as the more popular method for exp, though SCs were still fairly common (this was just after ToAU came out).

Zergs in End Game are totally different though, and are something that requires a lot more work and preparation than you guys give them credit. No way in fuck could Joe-shmoe AH Melee walk in to a zerg and be of ANY benefit. The reason they hadn't been used before they were was because they weren't even POSSIBLE before. Hitting the haste cap was a pipe-dream for some jobs, and utterly impossible for the rest, due to the relatively limited gear selections at the time. After ToAU came out and made haste gear somewhat more readily available to the stronger zerg jobs, and we got Cat 2 merits, and such, mages started being more well informed about their abilities, people started getting bored of the old slow fights and decided to experiment, and found something that worked.

Don't you remember how unbelievable it was the first time you heard about someone zerging kirin in under 2 minutes? I thought it was a hoax. Then I saw the video and shat myself, lol. Then other groups tried to copy this strategy, and failed miserably. The vast majority couldn't do it, because they didn't have the gear and experience to pull it off.

Fast forward to today and zerg strats are fairly common and easy to pull off due to the higher levels and better availability of gear.

Personally, I enjoy both styles; long and drawn out fights where you slowly whittle down the NM while trying not to be annihilated, and also NMs where everyone just fucking goes apeshit after getting every maxed out buff possible and trying to kill the fucker as fast as humanly possible because any other strategy just doesn't work due to how insanely obnoxious the NMs TP moves are or due to time restraints, examples being Dynamis Lord before the overhaul, and pretty much every boss in Einherjar.

I would bet people still argue against this being true(without examples of course) and this is 100% to the forefront of why we could use SC(or variation) again due to everyone being on the zerg bandwagon.

[Sappho]

I love how everyone just ignores the raw math that Motenten posted which shows how total DPS goes *up* with waiting to skill chain.

Also, let me say it again, anyone that holds TP forever just waiting for their partner to get to 100 TP for a skill chain is guilty of bad playing. You have to know how to play your job well and your SC partner has to know how to play his job well.

That's the problem. Lazy and Easy always trumps Skill.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Skillchains are typically heavily resisted on most stronger mobs, that's why most people ignore SC damage. That's also after SE introduced skillchain bonus traits.

Looking at last pug Idlebrahn the only SC that didn't do insignificant damage was from a Sam and War skillchaining light. And considering the damage done on the highest light, I'm fairly certain it was either double, or the War closed it with Ukko's (4.6k Light).

[Brolic]

I love how everyone just ignores the raw math that Motenten posted which shows how total DPS goes *up* with waiting to skill chain.

Also, let me say it again, anyone that holds TP forever just waiting for their partner to get to 100 TP for a skill chain is guilty of bad playing. You have to know how to play your job well and your SC partner has to know how to play his job well.

That's the problem. Lazy and Easy always trumps Skill.

No quick and efficient trumps everything. the fastest way to kill something is the most skilled.

[Arcon]

I love how everyone just ignores the raw math that Motenten posted which shows how total DPS goes *up* with waiting to skill chain.

No one ignores it, but it's the prime example of a "spherical chicken in a vacuum". It's situational math that ignores many of the very common traps of an EXP party, such as other people having to hold their WS too not to interrupt the SCing parties. Also differing accuracy and multihit variables, which may have the same expected value but increase the variance, which means cases where the two don't line up perfectly are more common. Another factor is TP return after WS, which may place one job ahead of another. Disregarding even the fact that despite x-hit builds it may take people a different amount of time to get to the required TP. What if a SAM uses Meditate? What if Conserve TP kicks in, what if one job makes 50 TP after opening the SC before the other job can even go? And, probably the biggest factor, is that sometimes the best weapon skills don't close required Skillchains. Will you give up Ukko's Fury to close a Darkness Skillchain?

Also, keep in mind that his math was performed with jobs that get a Skillchain bonus.

Skillchains are not rewarding enough to be employed regularly. That's the only reason why people don't do it. Sometimes it actually is rewarding, and that's when people do use it (see my first example, KS99 turtle). But most of the time it's just not worth it, nowhere near it.