Tanking Discussion, not a "VS" forum

[Nightfyre]

Warcry, Berserk, Defender, Yonin all give you more hate. Yonin on a more useful basis, but the other ones are good spike hate tools.

I was ignoring Yonin on the assumption that you were talking about abilities generating spike hate. All such abilities are purely VE, meaning that it would have been more productive for you to simply keep meleeing due to JA delay. Abilties that actually affect your DPS etc are a different matter.

On high defense mobs

...my point would be inapplicable because I specifically stated "situations where you can achieve decent damage output."

Yes other jobs CAN tank things but there are 2 jobs that are simply BEST SUITED to do so.

I can think of a lot more than 2 jobs that are strong tanks... probably better tanks than the ones you have in mind in certain situations.

[Alderin]

I was ignoring Yonin on the assumption that you were talking about abilities generating spike hate. All such abilities are purely VE, meaning that it would have been more productive for you to simply keep meleeing due to JA delay. Abilties that actually affect your DPS etc are a different matter.

Although all of those abilities are VE, having enmity gear on you while using those particular JA's during the fight (not specifically for hate) helps in pulling hate when you can't melee. For example Odium Ring and Mermaid Earrings when recasting shadows (when you can't melee) or when using a JA for the bonus that it gives - such as Issekigan, Beserk etc (just using NIN/WAR in these examples since this job seems to be the topic of discussion).

Of course you don't *need* enmity gear when using this, but I did notice that once VE was capped, while using enmity gear and performing normal JA's / Spells for pure functionality point (like recasting shadows), it turns the mob's head from time to time at the end of the cast while you have not been swinging for a few hits and the THF has..

So yes in a way they can be seen as counterproductive but if used in a functional way - as if you would in a normal fight (Warcry before a ws etc), it does give you that second inbetween attack rounds that the mob is facing you.