Samurai as intended

[Tamoa]

SAM was initially meant to Tank and NIN to DD

With Kannagi they made NIN a fairly well DD but now SAM needs to be improved so it can has better Tanking odds and Survival rate would go up by a lot

Only reason nin can tank better than sam in abyssea is this nice little thing called crit based ws, and add the right atmas to that. But abyssea isn't everything in this game.

Also, I'd say that sam survival rate >>>>> nin survival rate. Capping -PDT and -MDT is easy as sam. As nin, not so easy.

[Dragonlord]

Only reason nin can tank better than sam in abyssea is this nice little thing called crit based ws, and add the right atmas to that. But abyssea isn't everything in this game.

Also, I'd say that sam survival rate >>>>> nin survival rate. Capping -PDT and -MDT is easy as sam. As nin, not so easy.

-MDT is easy to cap on any job w/ shell V on, so that doesn't matter. There are a lot of -PDT all job items in game too, dark rings and twilight neck are -17%, nin is on metallon backpiece for another -4% and i'm sure there's more.

Quite simply though, shadows>third eye, which is where sam falls short on tanking. It can't mitigate damage as well as nin. Now on NMs where any DD can tank, surely sam can as well. But there's a reason nin tanking caught on in the first place, and kannagi now allows nins to maintain hate better. Sam makes a decent tank or support tank on lesser NMs but other jobs overshadow it through dmg mitigation or dmg dealt.

[Nightfyre]

Also, I'd say that sam survival rate >>>>> nin survival rate. Capping -PDT and -MDT is easy as sam. As nin, not so easy.

It's true that SAM has greater flexibility with MDT gear, but NIN can get 26% MDT without too much effort now even ignoring weapon slots. Only expensive item is Mollusca Mantle, maybe Lieutenant's Sash (time-wise) if you didn't do much Assault. Their PDT options are only inferior to SAM's in one slot (legs, Gavial/Hydra +1 vs Darksteel +1) unless you're also factoring in Eisen Grip for some reason. The more expensive/time-consuming items (Arhat's +1, augmented rings/earrings, Jingang Greaves, Flume Belt, Mollusca Mantle if you can't cap with Shadow) are identical.

[Babekeke]

maybe Lieutenant's Sash (time-wise) if you didn't do much Assault.

Colossus's mantle is another fairly easy option to get in the back slot.

[Tamoa]

It's true that SAM has greater flexibility with MDT gear, but NIN can get 26% MDT without too much effort now even ignoring weapon slots. Only expensive item is Mollusca Mantle, maybe Lieutenant's Sash (time-wise) if you didn't do much Assault. Their PDT options are only inferior to SAM's in one slot (legs, Gavial/Hydra +1 vs Darksteel +1) unless you're also factoring in Eisen Grip for some reason. The more expensive/time-consuming items (Arhat's +1, augmented rings/earrings, Jingang Greaves, Flume Belt, Mollusca Mantle if you can't cap with Shadow) are identical.

You're absolutely right, sam has greater flexibility with -MDT gear than nin. I think that's what I meant, it just came out wrong. I also totally forgot about Mollusca Mantle, although I personally don't think it's worth 2.5-3mil. I'd probably get one though if nin was my main and the job I played 95% of the time. To be honest I think the reason I prefer sam tank to nin a lot of the time has to do with the people I have been playing with for the last 2+ years.

[Kuroganashi]

Only reason nin can tank better than sam in abyssea is this nice little thing called crit based ws, and add the right atmas to that. But abyssea isn't everything in this game.

Also, I'd say that sam survival rate >>>>> nin survival rate. Capping -PDT and -MDT is easy as sam. As nin, not so easy.

yet a good NIN doesn't get hit, so it is a Variable if the NIN gets hit or not and if the Enemy is better tanked as a NIN or SAM or MNK or w/e

i.e. TURUL a lot easier on MNK than it is on NIN (Thanks to the Counter Rate / Guard / PDT / MDT) , however some mobs are better tanked as a Blink Tank or EVA tank rather than Blood tank, Wouldn't ya agree my dear?)

[Tamoa]

yet a good NIN doesn't get hit, so it is a Variable if the NIN gets hit or not and if the Enemy is better tanked as a NIN or SAM or MNK or w/e

i.e. TURUL a lot easier on MNK than it is on NIN (Thanks to the Counter Rate / Guard / PDT / MDT) , however some mobs are better tanked as a Blink Tank or EVA tank rather than Blood tank, Wouldn't ya agree my dear?)

Actually no, I don't agree, seeing as for over 2 years I've been playing with a damn good sam (and war after abyssea was released) who pretty much blood tanks everything. 99% of the time I'm the one responsible for keeping him alive and status ailment-free. But I will admit that my views on war or sam tanking v/s nin tanking has been heavily influenced by this.

[Brolic]

yet a good NIN doesn't get hit, so it is a Variable if the NIN gets hit or not and if the Enemy is better tanked as a NIN or SAM or MNK or w/e

i.e. TURUL a lot easier on MNK than it is on NIN (Thanks to the Counter Rate / Guard / PDT / MDT) , however some mobs are better tanked as a Blink Tank or EVA tank rather than Blood tank, Wouldn't ya agree my dear?)

not in the slightest, with the infinite mp of minkin or vw temps mobs are best tanked by the job that will kill it the fastest

[scaevola]

yet a good NIN doesn't get hit, so it is a Variable if the NIN gets hit or not and if the Enemy is better tanked as a NIN or SAM or MNK or w/e

i.e. TURUL a lot easier on MNK than it is on NIN (Thanks to the Counter Rate / Guard / PDT / MDT) , however some mobs are better tanked as a Blink Tank or EVA tank rather than Blood tank, Wouldn't ya agree my dear?)

None of that has anything to do with the fact that you can't counter with shadows up, but you CAN theoretically counter with Third Eye up. Furthermore, the better the NIN, the less useful Counterstance becomes, but a Seigan-using SAM is always going to have windows where she's vulnerable, making /MNK useful even if she doesn't benefit from Counterstance while TE's active.

I was screwing around a bit with SAM/MNK and it feels like I'm countering a whole bunch without losing Third Eye, but I don't know if that's because of Counterstance or the Zanshin buff. Just occurred to me, though (which shows you how much thought I've been putting into this question): we ought to be able to get an answer pretty easily by just using Third Eye without Seigan and seeing if we get Counterstance counters that don't strip TE.