New Monk Weapon skills

[Monchat]

I checked it closer and best will be:

Oce. Headpiece +1 (13)
Ocelm. Harness +1 (13)
gorget same damage but 7 more acc over Aife
brutal / Pearl : (4) Brutal is better than 4dex
dex 8 ring and Epona (8) Epona is better than 8dex
hands : ZNM (10)
legs byakko (20)
feet nyzul +5 (10)
Atheling 3%DA is +1% and 5dex is +1.5% but ateling has 11 more attack which should beat that 0.5%
pililaka (6)
demonry (4)

Thats +88 so ok fairly close to 200.

ok I aggree epona probably goign to be better, as well as atheling. Forgot Victorys mite is actually 2.25 fTP not just 1.0625; I can't see gorget being better than a dex+6 necklace though. Accuracy will typically not be an issue since you are gearing for DEX and 200DEX give 100ACC.

[MarkovChain]

With too high DEX it's slightly better, just need more +DEX on neck slots from the VU to seal the comparison.

[MarkovChain]

This time I fought EM sand sweepers (457 def) because in previous tests I didn't control level beside "easy prey" or "decent challenge"

First I did ~100 WS with vere95, cap fstr, 578 attack, 432 skill, 219 dex, no gorget nor multiattack gear. I won't list it but I find an average of
m=1727.813725 (+/- 51)
The +/- should be smaller because one WS is actually 5 rolls so it's actually 500 pdif rolls (so the error is about 51/sqrt(5)~ +/- 23)
my ftp*WD with 95% accuracy is 1380.290625
My average pdif on Shijin is therefore 1.251775310

Here is the problem : BG wiki's average pdif formulae are wrong, at least for the setup below. I did a sample of 150 hits with the same defense and str and got an average of 121.0064103 +/- 3. My total damage is floor(432*0.11)+3+39+12 so my average pdif is 1.198083270. The range of min pdif to max pdif is correct but the average is not (cratio=478/457). At this point since average pdif formulae are incorrect you cannot reverse the formula like I did previously so I ate a kabob and adapted my gear to have 607 attack which is +5% attack.

I did 165 melee hits and got an average of 127.2848485 and a pdif of 1.260246025 which is about what I found on shijin empirically. So now I think it is 5% attack. It still puts spharai ahead (slightly) and spharai behing ahead is heavily dependent on having a good DEX build for shijin.

[Motenten]

Yes, all the wiki pDif averages are wrong. Based on what I know of the pDif distribution formulas, I'm not actually sure *how* to make an average pDif formula that wouldn't involve a huge amount of manual work.

That's part of the reason I suggested doing the one-hit-kill testing method, since that allows you to see the exact range of values produced, making it far easier to back-calculate to the actual cRatio.


Anyway, after a long bit of wrangling with the math, it looks like a cRatio of roughly 1.315 for the weaponskill, based on average pDif. cRatio of 1.315 would imply an attack of 601, which is a 4% increase in base attack. Given quite a few stages where error can creep in, I would concur on the likelihood of a 5% attack boost.

[Lushan]

I must question what gear you were wearing when you did the test......Because I full meritted the new WS and it pales in comparison to Ascetic's Fury (in most cases, however, I do get wack ascetics fury for low damage, not sure why). My gear are as follows: Tantra crown +2, Tantra Cyclas +2, Tantra Gloves +1, Tantra hose +2, Tantra Gaiters +2, Tantra Tathlum, Black Belt, Eponas, Raja's, Brutal, Kemas. Although i don't have verethragna, or Sapharai (currently using Taurine Cestis). My H2H is capped and fully meritted and my strength is fully meritted. Yet 9 out of 10 times, Ascetic's fury out damaged Shijin Spiral by 1k (i.e. Shijin did 2.8k damage in Aby against Bugards, Ascetics fury did 3.8k against same type of mobs).

[Motenten]

I think you missed the fact that this is not a crit-based weaponskill. Crit weaponskills will always do better than non-crit weaponskills in Abyssea with atma. If you think this will compete with Smite, or even Fury, inside Abyssea, you're completely missing the point.

While there is testing being done in Abyssea because it lends itself to certain types of tests, this weaponskill is only relevant outside Abyssea. Try comparing this with Ascetic's outside Abyssea and get back with us.

[Monchat]

I must question what gear you were wearing when you did the test......Because I full meritted the new WS and it pales in comparison to Ascetic's Fury (in most cases, however, I do get wack ascetics fury for low damage, not sure why). My gear are as follows: Tantra crown +2, Tantra Cyclas +2, Tantra Gloves +1, Tantra hose +2, Tantra Gaiters +2, Tantra Tathlum, Black Belt, Eponas, Raja's, Brutal, Kemas. Although i don't have verethragna, or Sapharai (currently using Taurine Cestis). My H2H is capped and fully meritted and my strength is fully meritted. Yet 9 out of 10 times, Ascetic's fury out damaged Shijin Spiral by 1k (i.e. Shijin did 2.8k damage in Aby against Bugards, Ascetics fury did 3.8k against same type of mobs).

You gear up for dex/da/ta. Should be obvious that Shijin spiral wouldn't beat even ascetic in abyssea. Outside, fo a given weapon and decent build, shijin is better than victory smite when impetus is done, and victory smite> shijin when its up. For non victory smite weapons ( say fire taipans +4 or relic), shijin is like 30%+ superior to asuran fists.

[xbobx]

Well what a horrible test you did. I bet you have RR on so Ascetics automatically gets a 30% boost over Shinjin right away.

I wish people actually would think first before testing

[MarkovChain]

I have a mix of attack & dex beating pure dex build. Right now I'm looking at

Spharai 99 // potestas bomblet
Ocemoleh head+1 // flame gorget // brutal // aesir
Toci's harness // Melee gloves +2// rajas // eponas
atheling // artful+1 // byakko // athos (until denali+5)

For the "ideal" set. Unless you have both toci+head, a well augmented shura kabuto will perform better. That's +66 dex only but a shitload of attack, probably more than a victory smite build.

[Monchat]

I'm using:

spharai 95// thew bomblet/
ocelomeh headpiece+1/light gorget/brutal earring/aesir ear pendant/
ocelomeh harness +1/melee gloves+1/epona's ring/rajas ring
atheling mantle/anguinus belt/byakko's haidate[augment:+6 attack]/melee gaiters+2

Playing with spharai while farming the second melee gaiters+2 upgrade items in Bubu, on Lv96 Dhalmels. Buffs were 2xmarch (+10 dex) minuet V(+5STR), red cury buns, Boost-STR(+13).

Berserk up: ~3k, up to 3.987k.
Berzerk down(but impetus up): ~2.5k

/jawdrop.

athos (until denali+5)

There is an AH feet ( probably the NQ version of athos) with dex+10. Athos's additional stats do nothing better for shijin spiral.