New Monk Weapon skills

[Atoreis]

Ok I tried it out in a simultation

I compare spharai(99)+ shijin spiral VS verethragna(99)+victory smite

Assumption for spharai:

usual TP gear, capped accuracy

melee attack (base with food and gear) 730
WS attack 730
10% crit rate,3% triple attack rate,21% double attack rate, 150 str on TP and WS
DEX on WS : 200 I know I'm targetting high end setups (consider that 2x march will give you 10 dex also with marches)
TP skill:=426 WS skill=412

mob's def:=500*0.90 (dia) 1 level difference
no boosting
693/1024 haste (maxed)

Kick rate rate:=0.25*1.1
regain:=1/tick
tripleproc on relic 12%
no gorget
counterrate:=80%


Assumption for vere:

usual TP gear, capped accuracy

melee attack (base with food and gear) 700
WS attack 700
10% crit rate [with impetus and VS's natural crit it averages to 39% crit rate on ws, using rancor collar : 15 base 15 boost and rest comes from impetus up/down],3% triple attack rate,21% double attack rate, 160 str on TP and 200 on WS (pushing it near the high end too)

TP skill:=426 WS skill=412

mob's def:=500*0.90 (dia) 1 level difference
no boosting
691/1024 haste (maxed)

Kick rate rate:=0.25*1.1
regain:=1/tick
ODD rate 15%
no gorget
counterrate:=65%

For mob's stats :
110 vit, 500 def + dia2, +1 level difference
10k HP, 4 sec delay between each fight, I don't use any ws under 1k HP remaining, mobs have 4 second delay (for counter calculations)

Here are the results with current knowledge


With lower haste spharai will win even more due to counter. SS is decently higher in damage (9.5%) and spharai's ws damage per second is slightly higher than vere (5.4%) since vere is still a bit less delay. Spharai's stronger base damage and 3x proc helps it surpass vere's dots even though it has 15% ODD rate : spharai melee hits are 9% stronger but it's slower so in the end it's 2.1% better melee damage per second only. Also in practice Shijin has much less variance than vere so it's more reliable in a sense. Note that the counter+ on spharai only slightly helps damage output due to capped haste.

We know have to wait what the afterglow is.

Spharai is ~2.6% better than vere for pure damage not counting the tanking capability (-5/tick TP for 30 second on shijin and more counter).

You making a lot of false assumptions that in the end favors Spharai a lot. Like there is no way Spharai has better melee damage.

Spharai (51+10+52)*1.24+(51+10+52)*1.52=140+172=312 DPS 312*60/113.2=165.37
Veret (51+13+42)*1.26*1.3+(42+13+52)*1.26=307 DPS 307*60/106.2=173.4

Thats around 5% advantage before kicks which will favor Veret a little more because of delay.
This advantage will raise even more with more QA/TA/DA gear coming in next updates or if you have fighter's roll.

[MarkovChain]

If I exclude your inability to compute fstr I think you forgot spharai's 40 attack boost which is 30 attack more than vere, when you are unlikely to not cap pdif in all seriousness with 160 str before weapon and full AF3... You usually get minuet V from daurdabla too and 7 from curry buns and if your whm doesn't suck, at least 10 from boost str. If my 6 man party can get +18 str just from a bard's minuet and a whm I hope you do anywhere where it matter.

[Atoreis]

If I exclude your inability to compute fstr I think you forgot spharai's 40 attack boost which is 30 attack more than vere, when you are unlikely to not cap pdif in all seriousness with 160 str before weapon and full AF3... You usually get minuet V from daurdabla too and 7 from curry buns and if your whm doesn't suck, at least 10 from boost str. If my 6 man party can get +18 str just from a bard's minuet and a whm I hope you do anywhere where it matter.

But I took STR you posted...

10% crit rate,3% triple attack rate,21% double attack rate, 150 str on TP and WS

and mob you posted....

110 vit, 500 def + dia2, +1 level difference

150-110=40
40/4=10

[MarkovChain]

and you forgot the attack boost too ? dude. While the fstr is indeed 11 and 13 for the example above, it also means that I'm understimated them for tp in both cases. You find vere 4.8% better so what ? You don't account for impetus up/down, nor the attack boost on spharai and plenty of other important things (counter for instance).

[setting]

is there any extra buffs to 99 relic ws or the 2.5dmg proc ? mabe relic ws will own both /prays

[Atoreis]

is there any extra buffs to 99 relic ws or the 2.5dmg proc ? mabe relic ws will own both /prays

None has 99 relic. Update is at Wednesday not to mention we don't even know 1000 of what we need to upg it to 99...

[Konigwolf]

I think you misunderstand the mechanics of DA/TA/doubleDamage/tripleDamage effects Atoreis. For example:

Comparing two weapons with everything equal besides delay:

W1 : DMG 35 Delay 51, I'll skip over the math and simply state that DMG 35 deals 100 damage per round.
W2 : DMG 35 Delay 86, 100 damage per round.

Let's look at the total damage dealt over 1 minute with 0% DA and 20% DA for each weapon (I'll just look at DA since TA/doubleDamage etc. are the same calculations anyway)

W1
Delay 51 => (60/51) = ~1.176 attacks per second, 70.588 attacks per minute
70.588*100 = 7058.8 damage per minute (0% DA)
70.588*1.2*100 = 8470.56 damage per minute (20% DA)
(8470.56 - 7058.8)/7058.8 = 0.2 20% improvement in damage

W2
Delay 86 => (60/86) = ~0.698 attacks per second, 41.860 attacks per minute
40.860*100 = 4086.0 damage per minute (0% DA)
40.860*1.2*100 = 4903.2 damage per minute (20% DA)
(4903.2 - 4086.0)/4086.0 = 0.2 20% improvement in damage

So delay has nothing to do with how much benefit you get from DA/TA/doubleDamage/tripleDamage. You could have had 500 delay and still derived the same benefit from DA/... if your base damage made up for it.

However, you're right that Kick Attacks should slightly favor Verethragna's lower delay, because Spharai can't improve kick damage as much (except maybe for attack +40, which I'm not sure if it applies to kicks).

[Cream_Soda]

This advantage will raise even more with more QA/TA/DA gear coming in next updates or if you have fighter's roll.

[MarkovChain]

I think you misunderstand the mechanics of DA/TA/doubleDamage/tripleDamage effects Atoreis. For example:

Comparing two weapons with everything equal besides delay:

W1 : DMG 35 Delay 51, I'll skip over the math and simply state that DMG 35 deals 100 damage per round.
W2 : DMG 35 Delay 86, 100 damage per round.

Let's look at the total damage dealt over 1 minute with 0% DA and 20% DA for each weapon (I'll just look at DA since TA/doubleDamage etc. are the same calculations anyway)

W1
Delay 51 => (60/51) = ~1.176 attacks per second, 70.588 attacks per minute
70.588*100 = 7058.8 damage per minute (0% DA)
70.588*1.2*100 = 8470.56 damage per minute (20% DA)
(8470.56 - 7058.8)/7058.8 = 0.2 20% improvement in damage

W2
Delay 86 => (60/86) = ~0.698 attacks per second, 41.860 attacks per minute
40.860*100 = 4086.0 damage per minute (0% DA)
40.860*1.2*100 = 4903.2 damage per minute (20% DA)
(4903.2 - 4086.0)/4086.0 = 0.2 20% improvement in damage

So delay has nothing to do with how much benefit you get from DA/TA/doubleDamage/tripleDamage. You could have had 500 delay and still derived the same benefit from DA/... if your base damage made up for it.

However, you're right that Kick Attacks should slightly favor Verethragna's lower delay, because Spharai can't improve kick damage as much (except maybe for attack +40, which I'm not sure if it applies to kicks).

His point is that odd can proc on multiattack. Even if that is the case it's a minor upgrade for current gear. If we exclude the fact that fighter's roll is as useless as the job that casts it, the next Nyzul body has a decent increase in mutiattack rate. However it's not +20% DA its da, ta and qa in small amount so even if odd can proc it's going to make vere less reliably better than spharai assuming it is. Nevermind the fact that VS would lose from not equipping AF3+2 this during impetus (losing ~20% cridamage I think)

[Atoreis]

Yeah I need to eat my words sorry everyone. We got shafted once again Veret's ODD can only proc ONCE per attack round like Vegetto said( cant proc on multiattacks ). Ofc all other Empy can proc on multiattacks, THANK YOU SE!

@Konigwolf My idea of Veret getting stronger with QA/TA/DA was based on thinking that Relics can only proc hidden damage on very first hit of the attack round (cant on multiattacks) which is also true for main hand of Spharai and Empy ODD proccing on multiattacks which also true for every empyrean beside Veret. Once again THANK YOU SE!

@MarkovChain VS actually not losing anything from not equipping af3+2 body during punching. Bonus to crit damage from body is storing +1%crit damage every hit even if you equip body only for WS itself.