Personal temper findings

[Kitkat]

my first post was nothing but pure information and values. if you didnt get caught up in the crap storm people have been tossing my way for even suggesting that rdm could be viable at anything other then backline roles, you might have seen that. the awnser to your question is: 17.63 double attack provided SE hasnt programmed in a cap that ive yet to hit, or a sudden drop in the + DA per skill curve. at 501 skill we would have 20-21% double attack rate. all of this information was in the very first post. honestly this thread needed to be locked after someone started nitpicking over the usage of diminishing returns.

Your information had inaccuracies so I was looking for people to actually back up what you said with solid information. Currently there has been no solid answer derived via reverse equations of known % values to give a working equation to work with. Additionally, without a working parser for test servers let alone the fact that we can't even do the +2 relic trials at the moment, it would be more beneficial for numbers to be ran and verified via community.

In conclusion, your numbers are not substantiated at this time and I'm looking for people to focus on that rather then troll you. Don't jump my case for trying to correct the course of this topic. If you want to argue semantics of what a rdm can/can't do then go make a new topic for it and argue to your hearts content.

[Greatguardian]

Reading this thread has diminishing returns.

Hilariously enough, THIS is using the term correctly.

Edit: Crap. Kitkat may end up giving this thread increasing returns after an inflection point if this goes on, though. Come on Red Mage forums, don't fail me now.

[Tamoa]

I just want to know what kind of mob(s) Hideka is successfully tanking (i.e. not being the only one hitting it) as rdm/war. Both inside and outside abyssea.

Yea but no one shows up on RDM to a event on a sub dd job that's just common sense at this point right. I mean you wouldn't get past 10 post here on the forums thinking that way.

Wishful thinking. :/

[Zerich]

Wait, if that's so, then why can't i be a main tank on my SCH...I mean, I have a form of shadows, damage mitigation, and (lol)Sandstorm with a GAMEBREAKING VIT+?!

[Kitkat]

Hilariously enough, THIS is using the term correctly.

Edit: Crap. Kitkat may end up giving this thread increasing returns after an inflection point if this goes on, though. Come on Red Mage forums, don't fail me now.

Lol, yeah right....as you said, this is the rdm forum.

[Crimson_Slasher]

Frankly im getting a bit tired of the pissing-contest on the rdm forums that seems to follow Great Guardian and Neisan Quetz's posts. At this point, i agree with some of the others that rdm shouldnt be locked to one role, so lets break out our thick glasses, calculators, pocket protecters, and start number crunching like nerds, find out real useful things and stop nitpicking semantics. I want to know what is my potential, not what Joe-blow thinks about my ability to do it. Lets contribute constructive information at this point and not destructive comments. I hope others can get behind my message when i say, grab your staffs, swords, daggers, bows, clubs, pinwheels, shields, and whatever else you can carry and get crackin! If i can find a parser that i like, ill even start getting numbers going myself. Feel free to direct me to one if possible.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Can I even post the link to kparse? w/e, it's easy to find on google, just look up Motenten.

DPS sheets (there isn't one for Rdm, I just modify the Pld Sheet):

https://docs.google.com/#folders/0B0...MwMDI1N2VkYWZk

[Ketaru]

my first post was nothing but pure information and values. if you didnt get caught up in the crap storm people have been tossing my way for even suggesting that rdm could be viable at anything other then backline roles

Actually, I think the course of the thread was:
Informational post that misused "Diminishing Returns".
People call out misuse.
Instead of admitting a mistake was made, OP (that would be you) gets all defensive about how s/he chose to use "Diminishing Returns".
Some arguing about the value of selecting proper words to articulate what you actually mean.

Then...

random OUT OF THE BLUE post from lolWackyland about how GREAT RDM is with war subJob for tanking and dd-ing and using DEFENDER that ppl hav n instant negative lol reaction to orz!

Then the discussion went from there.

[Doombringer]

tanking is very simple. 1)hold hate. 2)don't die.

now, in a.. well at this point, not so recent update... se destroyed the enmity gain on a lot of rdms spells. we don't have our own equivalent of flash, shield bash, sentinel, whathaveyou, to generate hate. plus on top of that.. actual paladins, who used to be the hate monsters of ffxi, are already having problems holding hate off strong DD's.

now, while all that stuff you listed does help with the "don't die" part, just subbing ninja and spamming shadows would help MORE against most mobs. (all that cast/recast time applies to utsusemi to) and at the same time, duel wield and the fact your not using defender is going to lead to a lot more damage. damage that will generate hate. enough hate to more than cancel out the loss of provoke. (though, i would suggest that it's usually not gonna be enough to actually HOLD hate.)

so at this point, subbing warrior isn't really good. even if you find a mob that can tear shadows apart, or you INSIST on going cheap and not using tools, you could sub blu for MORE defense without hurting your attack via defender.



also, i dislike the idea of dnc as a dd sub.. it's not.. you get a better delay reduction from /nin. and while waltzes could be helpful, every point of tp you spend to heal is tp you didn't ws with. you may as well have subbed nin and not taken that damage in the first place. also in your example... what sam? what samurai is going to wait for you to build tp if your spending it 50 points at a time on waltzes?

then as a healer sub, if you find yourself in a situation where you're needed to heal others, but don't have the mp to keep up.. it's probably a "don't melee' situation anyway. how much healing power are you even gaining by subbing dnc? compared to the mage gear and staff you're not wearing?


i hate the typecasting of rdm even more than the next guy. i'm actually a long time "meleerdm" but.... it's not like this isn't controversial enough already, yah know?

this whole post makes me feel like a hypocrite but... i feel like it needs to be said.. so i'm gonna address this next bit at nobody in particular, so please nobody take offense :"if you're gonna suck, do it with a staff on your back. my life is hard enough already." that's a self quote actually, from years ago. after i explained to a friend all the gear he'd need to even TRY to be effective as a hybrid rdm.. and his response was something to the effect of "to hard, i'll just blah blah bare minimum"

my point is, there aren't many.. unconventional.. rdms left. so we all end up representative of one another in the publics mind. wow this post got long...

[Greatguardian]

I liked Doom's post.

Yeah, I went there.