Personal temper findings

[saevel]

And BTW NQ, you do realize that BLU's with Almace are encouraged to NOT cast damage spells and focus on spamming CDC, unless there is a need for large burst damage. So your attempt to allude to a RDM vs BLU with a BLU being gimped by not casting is dishonest, and you know it. Your also removing all external considerations other then damage in an attempt to misdirect. A RDM isn't a DD, its' a hybrid, meaning DD + support. To discount the support and self sustaining portion is to only compare 30% of the job.

I'm remembering why I put you on Ignore list. You can't actually make a logical argument and rely on misdirections and false dichotomy's in an attempt to prove a point.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Post proof or shut up, I'm tired of your rhetoric now. Or I'll happily point you back to Byrth's analysis in the Blu forum where we had to sit you down and teach you math.

[saevel]

Post proof or shut up, I'm tired of your rhetoric now.

And while I know I'm gonna regret clicking show on your post, for everyone's sake I'll ask.
What would you define as "proof"?

50%, 60%, 70%, 80% of some theoretical DD that doesn't exist.
3000 , 4000, 5000 HP cured.

What exactly is your metric by which you objectively evaluate the utility and viability of a hybrid RDM? Are you comparing it vs a non-hybrid /WHM RDM? Are you comparing it to a DD BLU, SAM, MNK, WAR?

I think your answer will ultimately be that there is no metric. No amount of parses will demonstrate anything. I can show me be beating emp WAR's, SAMs and MNKs. That was mostly due to them dieing and me not dieing, skin, blinks and my own cure source help tremendously when the NM in question is spamming high damage aoes. Or I can dial the way-back machine to when we were 75 and I used to parse almost every dynamis run. That was back when I was trying to prove that I could keep up with or at least hold my own. I eventually stopped saving parses cause it didn't matter, people just get angry when you show them their idea's and beliefs are wrong.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Congratulations, you beat a bunch of gimps. Doesn't make you a DD.

Especially a Ukon war loooooooool, that's a good laugh. Just stop while you're still behind.

I'm still waiting for your proof of adding actual significant damage on Rdm.

EDIT: If you want to talk about 75 my rdm/drk nuking outdamaged a Sam. Does that mean Rdm was a good damage dealer? No, it means that Sam wasn't worth half a shit.

[saevel]

Congratulations, you beat a bunch of gimps. Doesn't make you a DD.

Especially a Ukon war loooooooool, that's a good laugh. Just stop while you're still behind.

I'm still waiting for your proof of adding actual significant damage on Rdm.

This is why I stopped saving parses. No matter what I do, you'll just immediately discount it.

In an even fight vs a brick wall with infinite HP, a Ukon WAR will crush anything a RDM could do. In a real fight with NM's spamming aoe's, that story can change really fast as now the WAR must worry about not dieing, and once dead they deal no damage.

Not only that, but again if we're talking Abyssea / Voidwatch then we're talking procing things for drops. Getting loot takes precidence to measuring e-peen's. So that Ukon WAR is now wielding a staff, or a GSWD, or a Polearm or even a Club trying to proc red instead of spamming Ukon. If the RDM is going full tilt (he shouldn't be) then the WAR will lose. (This isn't to say RDM is even remotely as useful as a WAR is inside abyssea, but that's a different discussion entirely).

So now we're left with Voidwatch as the only relevant "content" at 95. An event where the NM's spam high damage aoe moves so much, that now melees are Tping in -PDT/MDT sets instead of full DD gear. Again we see dealing damage taking a backseat to staying alive.

Tell me again, whats your accepted standard / objective measurement? I must of missed it.

[Neisan_Quetz]

I stopped saving parses because I realized there's no point in using gimps as a measuring bar. Now I just use it check accuracy etc. in VW.

I can proc red in Abyssea and still outdamage my rdm by a mile and a half no contest.

War in full PDT gear with ukko's is still a better dd than rdm.

[saevel]

I stopped saving parses because I realized there's no point in using gimps as a measuring bar. Now I just use it check accuracy etc. in VW.

I can proc red in Abyssea and still outdamage my rdm by a mile and a half no contest.

War in full PDT gear with ukko's is still a better dd than rdm.

This a faulty argument by several standards

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_%28logic%29
I never argued who was the better DD, RDM isn't a full DD

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

I never argued that RDM was the best DD

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasty_generalization

Your sample size in the prescribed debate is effectively 0

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well

Or also depending on what you were trying to do

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_attribution

Your statement that anything that doesn't out-damage a RDM must therefor be gimp.

And ultimately,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignoratio_elenchi

A job being able to out damage another job on an infinite hit-point target has no bearing to the usefulness of a Hybrid Red Mage.

Again that objective measurement.

[Kitkat]

Get back on topic or I'm going to report the thread which will most likely end up getting it locked based on the fact it already took 7 pages to get back on topic and couldn't even stay there for 2 pages before once again going off topic because someone thinks they have something to prove.

For the last time this isn't t: topic, it is about reversing known numbers of temper findings to find a formula to go by, and hopefully, once 99 cap is live finding the cap of temper if it is within our enhancing skill range.

[saevel]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post238301

The points at which it veered off topic. You guys wanted to bring it up. At least my post was relevant as it related to the posting at BG about the temper findings.

If (s)he had left the whole

In a perfect world, it would just be an accepted fact that meleeing on RDM is just not optimal for higher tier content

out of it there wouldn't of been a sidebar.

Anyway this is about Temper, which is a melee related spell that can ONLY be cast on a Red Mage. Thus the melee viability of said Red Mage is related to the thread.

Now if you guys would just stop trying to prove anything by yelling louder and insulting people we might actually get somewhere.

[Qeepel]

Hello everyone,

I'd like to remind everyone to please refrain from making inflammatory comments towards others and off topic discussions. Such language and actions is considered a violation of the forum guidelines, and can result in the termination of your account.

Thank you.

-SQUARE ENIX MODERATOR