AF3 Body...

[Raksha]

the scholar empyrean has a % chance of a 0% enmity gain not sure the actual % but it is rather frequent from what i have seen its around 20% that's a rough estimate

You have a link to testing?

Raksha you already said you "didn't believe it" in another thread, until me or someone else linked the discussion with the tests (was it on BG? On FFXIAH? I don't remember).

I'm aware it wasn't a particularly extensive set, but there also were very little doubts hinting at something else.
It's just a very small chance of generating 0 enmity while casting a spell, period.
Not worth to take off your -enmity gearset, you can't "control" when the proc happens, and anyway it's a very low percentage.

No one ever provided the testing, I think you may have an inaccurate memory of that other thread.

I have no idea what the body does, and occasional 0 enmity sounds like a pretty good guess, but there are lots of good guesses that don't turn out to be accurate, so until I see some tests I'm going to withhold judgement.

If it was a significant proc rate, it probably would be worth losing the -5 enm from body slot (for example if it was more than a 5% proc rate) because you'd end up less enmity over time that way.

This question keep coming up, though, so an official response would be nice.

/holdingmybreath

[Zhronne]

No one ever provided the testing, I think you may have an inaccurate memory of that other thread.

Depending on your definition of "inaccurate", HERE is the link.
Discussion went on for a few pages.
The original test was pretty moot, more a collection of people reporting strange occurencies with their enmity.
Also, there was a more detailed test on FFXIAH (I think) that you linked in another thread that ruled out several other possibilities that were previously hypothesyzed (most of which were pretty complicated anyway).
With those ruled out, the "occasional no enmity proc" made much more sense.

Back then I never experienced it, it happened to me two times not long ago. Similar situation both times. Ninja had just voked and was back tanking, no huge spikes enmity aside from casting a few debuffs, I cast a seriously damaging spell on the target for lots of damage and he stays sticked to the tank.
That wouldn't have been possible without an enmity reduction (zero?) proc. It happened only those two times to me, I figure the proc rate must be pretty low, but then again I don't play SCH that often... and when I do I'm in situations where tanks are holding hate so good that I wouldn't notice if one of my spells generates zero enmity.
I imagine these to be the most common situations among us? That's probably why a lot of people have never noticed it.

If it was a significant proc rate, it probably would be worth losing the -5 enm from body slot (for example if it was more than a 5% proc rate) because you'd end up less enmity over time that way.

Supposing that's the real effect of the body (can't be 100% sure, but it definitely makes a lot of sense to me), I doubt it has a high %, and it's gonna be so random that a fixed -enmity is probably going to be much more reliable if you wanna keep your enmity generation down, no?
I think at least D:

This reminds me the fact I wish they could fix Augeo and Minuo... /sigh

[Raksha]

Supposing that's the real effect of the body (can't be 100% sure, but it definitely makes a lot of sense to me), I doubt it has a high %, and it's gonna be so random that a fixed -enmity is probably going to be much more reliable if you wanna keep your enmity generation down, no?
I think at least D:

Think of it like WSing in double attack gear. Sure not ALL of your WSes are gonna double attack, but on average your total damage is going to go up.

Depending on your definition of "inaccurate", HERE is the link.
Discussion went on for a few pages.
The original test was pretty moot, more a collection of people reporting strange occurencies with their enmity.
Also, there was a more detailed test on FFXIAH (I think) that you linked in another thread that ruled out several other possibilities that were previously hypothesyzed (most of which were pretty complicated anyway).
With those ruled out, the "occasional no enmity proc" made much more sense.

Yeah and yet still no one can provide me with a link to these tests.

I don't really want to argue about it again, i'm not trying to be hostile or anything, I just don't want speculation to cause me (or anyone else) to make an inferior gear choice. Just because we ruled out a lot of things, doesnt make any leftover hypotheses more plausible. If anything, I'd be more likely to believe that it's broken.

Maybe i'll kidnap byrth and we can hammer this thing out.

[Zhronne]

Yeah and yet still no one can provide me with a link to these tests.

...
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, or maybe I'm just missing some subtext in your posts? I'm pretty confused atm D:

The original test was pretty moot, more a collection of people reporting strange occurencies with their enmity.

Which means, there was no real tests (for which I mean something with a considerable amount of attempts in a controllable environment) but mostly people reporting that thing happening.
I also added that I had never experienced it myself until a few weeks ago, when it happened TWO times, in pretty similar situations, and I Can't find any other possible explanation to what happened other than "something" procced making so my spell generated either 0 enmity or a very very small amount of enmity.

You never experienced it yourself?
Not saying that has to be 100% the effect on the body, but I see no other explanations for what other people have reported and what has happened to ME. I could have thought it was just people influencing each other, until it happened to me.
Could there be another explanation to what has happened to me? Maybe, help me find it then! I can't think of anything else. Just randon emnity bug that has nothing to do with AF3 body? Could be I guess, but when I look at it from a point of view concerning % chances, it seems more likely for it to be the set bonus than a random and mysterious never-seen-before enmity bug.

[Raksha]

...
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, or maybe I'm just missing some subtext in your posts? I'm pretty confused atm D:


Which means, there was no real tests (for which I mean something with a considerable amount of attempts in a controllable environment) but mostly people reporting that thing happening.

People report strange things all the time. Doesn't mean they are lying, they could just be mistaken. There's a reason why we use reason and and the scientific method, it's so we can tell things which exist from things which don't exist.

I also added that I had never experienced it myself until a few weeks ago, when it happened TWO times, in pretty similar situations, and I Can't find any other possible explanation to what happened other than "something" procced making so my spell generated either 0 enmity or a very very small amount of enmity.

You never experienced it yourself?
Not saying that has to be 100% the effect on the body, but I see no other explanations for what other people have reported and what has happened to ME. I could have thought it was just people influencing each other, until it happened to me.
Could there be another explanation to what has happened to me? Maybe, help me find it then! I can't think of anything else. Just randon emnity bug that has nothing to do with AF3 body? Could be I guess, but when I look at it from a point of view concerning % chances, it seems more likely for it to be the set bonus than a random and mysterious never-seen-before enmity bug.

So what exactly happened that causes you to believe that af3 body gives an occasional enmity free spell? Which spell were you casting? which mob were you fighting? Who were your other party members? You say it happened twice? was it on the same mob? during the same fight?

And as for "noticing it" during a fight, what exactly is there to notice? You cast a spell and don't pull hate? I do that all the time. How do we distinguish a hate-free spell from a regular one? (Hint: you probably can't in the middle of a battle.)

SE has recently added a piece of gear that "occasionally causes spells to generate no enmity" (or w/e the wording is). So we know the mechanic exists, the question remains though is that effect also on SCH af3 body? No one is going to know for sure without controlled tests.

[Zhronne]

People report strange things all the time.

Absolutely.
But when you see all sort of people (we're not talking about 2 here, eh) posting on KI, FFXIAH, Alla, official forums, BG etc and all reporting the same effect you kinda start thinking which are the odds that they're all the same 2 people using fake accounts, or under mass-hallucination, or that maybe *hint hint* what they're reporting exists and it's not a random occurrence.

Doesn't mean they are lying, they could just be mistaken.

Absolutely.
But please find another explanation for what I described, I'm open to suggestions.

So what exactly happened that causes you to believe that af3 body gives an occasional enmity free spell?

I wrote it above.

Which spell were you casting? which mob were you fighting?

Don't remember the spell on the first one, it was a nuke though. No debuff or other stuff. I clearly remember it was a nice Blizzard IV the second time, the target was different. Once it was a NM in Abyssea - Attohwa (I think Granite Borer?) and the other time it was a jelly NM in Abyssea - Konschtat (the one that drops Savant's Treatise)

Who were your other party members?

Me, the above mentioned Ninja and a BRD on the first NM, me and the Ninja alone on the second.

You say it happened twice? was it on the same mob? during the same fight?

Yes.
No.
No.

And as for "noticing it" during a fight, what exactly is there to notice?

Simply said, if that NIN wasn't back tanking and the fight hadn't just started, I would have never noticed it.
When I pull hate over a tank it's not because of a single spell, but because of all of the ones I cast until that point.
Having a single spell that generates no enmity would only delay the moment I get enmity.
Still morning-dead brain, let me try with an example:

-------------flow of time---------------->
spell 1, spell 2, spell 3, spell 4, spell 5, !!! you get hate on you
spell 1, spell 2, spell 3, spell 4, spell 5 (body proc), spell 6 you get hate on you

This is what would happen to me.
Supposing this is true, it's no surprise I never noticed it before, especially outside of abyssea. (altough the biggest reason for me is that I don't often get a chance to play SCH tbh)

You cast a spell and don't pull hate?

The monster had just been pulled/popped, no action (aside from maybe a couple of debuffs) had been performed on it.
No way I wouldn't pull hate on it in those circumstances with the amount of damage I did with those spells.

How do we distinguish a hate-free spell from a regular one? (Hint: you probably can't in the middle of a battle.)

It's almost impossible, altough maybe Libra could help with that.
But I guess it's almost impossible otherwise, and the very peculiar situation I was in allowed me to tell it because the fight had just started. Were I in the middle of a normal fight, I would have just assumed that the tank was doing his job and keeping his enmity above mine, I would have never thought my spell generated no enmity (hence: I would have never noticed, see above)

SE has recently added a piece of gear that "occasionally causes spells to generate no enmity" (or w/e the wording is). So we know the mechanic exists

Oh... uhm I missed that, or maybe I just forgot about it after reading in dat mines.


Once more, I'm not saying it has to be 100% that way, just that what happened to me was very strange and I can't find any other explanation, other than... uhm... a random bug or something? But which are the odds of that happening seriously?