Get rid of 8 hour windows for Notorious Monsters

[FrankReynolds]

That's a legitimate argument and I can get behind it. The idea of pseudo-randomness has always been a big part of this game though, and it extends to most aspects of it. Whether that's a good decision or not (I think it's not) is genuinely debatable. Thanks for making an actual point.

If this is all we're arguing about, I agree. It's other stuff, like "Doing X isn't fun...but I want Y!" where Y is something rewarding that not many people should have that I've been trying to address.

Glad we finally agree

So it's impossible to kill an NM with an 8, 9, 10, or 20 hour spawn window with only two hours of attention? While it's possible for an NM to take a long-ass time to spawn, most of the the lottery spawns take about two hours on average. All you need is the ToD in your log and to be able to add time.

Trying to kill an NM with a window that big by only logging in for 2 hours a day is clearly possible. The odds that you did that, and didn't in fact either spend far more time than you are claiming, or have someone else kill them however, are really low. And even if you did get that lucky, you know damn well that most people won't. At best, you are playing devils advocate, But really I doubt that.

lol at logical fallacy. Penguin says: Lots of birds fly!

Well, I'm just sayin.... if you go around posting things like:

I WANT A TOP-TIER WEAPON TO SET ME APART FROM OTHER PLAYERS BUT IT'S MAKING ME DO SHIT I DON'T WANNA DO. FFXI IS HARD."

Then there is a good chance that you are one of the people lowering the perceived intelligence curve of the forum.

Maybe they need to make a subsection called the sparring pit where people can go to shout insults and or berate each other. That might be fun.

[Luvbunny]

Do we even get a respond from the developer on this? I guess not, lol, they want their timesink and this is one of the best one they got for now.

[Ordoric]

only Nm i have found issues with is triple black stars the 5 minute window lottery just makes me want to kill i am forced to amuse my self here bat bat bat bat bat, let me chop your wings i have yet ot see the famed 2 spawn in one night

[Arcon]

Do we even get a respond from the developer on this? I guess not, lol, they want their timesink and this is one of the best one they got for now.

They're fine with it, probably because this is still one of the lowest timesinks in the game, and very few of the complaints in here are justified.

[Camiie]

They're fine with it, probably because this is still one of the lowest timesinks in the game,

Data please.

and very few of the complaints in here are justified.

OK, so which are justified and which are not?

[Arcon]

Data please.

Data on whether they're fine with it or data on why it's the lowest timesink? If it's the first, well, because they didn't respond yet? If it's the latter...

From the thread title: 8 hour pop. And they're complaining about this as one of the worst cases. Average probably 2~3 hours (for me personally it was hardly ever two hours and I've done three Empyrean weapons up to the VNM path). But for good measure, let's say 4 hours on average. There's 21 NM kills required before the VNM trials. Let's say you're doing three Empyrean weapons. That's 84 hours invested in this. If you're dedicated enough to work on an Empyrean weapon in the first place, I'd say you can get that done in two weeks easily (six hours daily). Lazy students like myself could do it in four days, and to show that these numbers are retardedly high for averages, I finished all of mine in about two days.

But doesn't matter, let's stick to two weeks. Now, if you can only invest 6h/day, how long do you figure the rest of that one Empyrean weapon alone will take you (not counting the last trial)?

How long does it take to get +1 gear for one of your job? +2 gear?

How long does it take to make a trial weapon (+3)?

How long does it take to get a specific item you're after from Dynamis? Nyzul? Sea? Sky? Einherjar? Salvage?

How long does it take you to camp NMs for drops instead of mere kills?

Or to put it very simply: Two weeks out of your entire FFXI career (let's be gentle and say two years) is 2% of your playtime.

Now while you ponder this data, try to think about how this would translate if you want more accurate results, and adjusted the numbers as such. 2h average on NM kills, 8h daily play time, playing for 6 years equal about 0.2% of your playtime. Another thing worth pondering is the fact that you can do most of those afk or asleep if you're in a party with others, again reducing a lot of the time you need to invest in this to the point that it becomes negligible.

OK, so which are justified and which are not?

The ones saying SE shouldn't have put the trials on NM kills are the only justifiable ones I've heard. That was a stupid decision on SE's part, but you can see why they did it (generic content, ease of development). However, "fixing" repop times, as many suggest, is not, because they're not broken. The repop time is so NMs cannot be spammed (which happened to coincide with SE's longevity plan for trial weapons). Now trials just suffer from a game mechanic that wasn't intended for them, and changing it for trials would override the previous logic used to install this delay in the first place. That doesn't make it better for people pursuing trials, but since it's not so bad to begin with I don't see what the fuss is about. It's not like you're doing ten Empyrean weapon trials, and if you, you really have no reason whatsoever to complain about time sinks.

[Neisan_Quetz]

None of those NMs should even potentially take 12-20 hours to spawn.

I'm looking at you Hovering Hotpopt (at least his PH spawn sooner now?).

[FrankReynolds]

I don't mind these therefor you don't shouldn't either.

I'm glad that you had an easy time of these, but the points your bringing up about shortening pop times aren't really addressing the issue. The actual issue has revolved around the fact that sitting in one place is dumb, and that there should be a path that is engaging to the player so that people can actually play the game, and have that progress recorded, not do laundry or sleep or w/e it is you do during retardedly long pop windows. While i think these pop times are stupid, and they encourage things like botting and griefing, that's not the real issue. The mobs in question don't really matter because nobody wants the drops anyways. I don't even think the lottery NMs should be involved in these quests. The real point is that as annoying as things that require 1,000,000 kills of x monster are, they at least allow you to play, and record your progress. where as a quest like "sit with your thumb up your ass for 84 hours" is really just asking people to go play a different game.

I play about 3-4 hours a day avg. I've done 4 weapons now, and this most recent monk one took me 7 days to get to the VNM stage. If I had not had the help of some JP players who let me afk a couple of nights, it would have taken longer. That's 7 days that I couldn't play the game. I just sat in a field somewhere. How is that good game design? Why is asking to be able to fight something, collect something, feed something or do anything but just stand there a bad request?

[Arcon]

Bla

Don't put words in my mouth. I never defended it. I just said it wasn't as bad as other time sinks in the game. In fact, I flat out said that it was a mistake to put the trials on NMs. SE shouldn't have done that. I don't agree with a majority of the things that SE did since Abyssea was released. If they adjust it, sweet. If not, I don't particularly mind, but feel free to keep complaining, maybe it'll do something.

[FrankReynolds]

Don't put words in my mouth. I never defended it.

but since it's not so bad to begin with I don't see what the fuss is about.

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