Get rid of 8 hour windows for Notorious Monsters

[Glamdring]

I think people are confusing 'wanting fun' with 'wanting things handed to them'. These are actually reciprocals of each other, as the more spoon fed an activity is, the less enjoyable it becomes. So can we try to break the association of wanting fun in a video game equaling wanting everything spoon fed?

Those trials are boring. Earlier in this topic someone made a decent argument; why should we be expected to play other games to pass time in this one? This game should be fun to play on its own, from the moment we log in to the moment we log out. Periods of stagnation and boredom should be minimum in a video game designed for entertainment. It's not as if we gain anything else from this game; it doesn't pay the bills, it doesn't put food on the table, it's just here for enjoyment.

If anyone ever feels superior to someone else because of accomplishments in a video game, then I feel sorry for them. Every player is different with their own lifestyles and own busy schedules. Some people have more time than others. Some people have more enjoyment out of beefing up their character to the best potential. But there's nothing wrong with anyone wanting fun in a media designed to provide fun.

Perhaps Square Enix could provide another leg for these trials? Something like killing a bunch of a specific monster. That way you could either go the 'fast' route of NM hunting (because lottery pops can get lucky), or the guaranteed route of monster slashing.

I wouldn't mind the time sink IF I WAS ACTUALLY ACCOMPLISHING SOMETHING! XP, Skill-ups, at least a little gil, get some tabs of F/GOV, something. as is, all I get is a RL butt that's fallen asleep from cutting off the blood flow waiting for 12 hours to see 1 NM.

[Calintzpso]

I called people short-sighted and pointed out that for accomplishment to exist in this game you have to include sacrificing immediate enjoyment for future enjoyment. If anything, playing a video game in the first place is lazy.

Friend camps a NM for Magians, gets 4 for 4 in a row with 1 hour on the dot respawns. I camped the same nm some time later. I got for 1 hour pop, 8 hour pop, 12 hour pop, 10 hour pop. Who sacrificed "more" immediate enjoyment for future enjoyment? I'm not looking for a handout on a silver platter like my friend, but I sure as hell don't want a handout on a paper plate that's been shit on twice over and soaked in the piss of a skunk.

Spending your time 'inefficiently' and expecting to benefit from it is just short-sighted, it's not lazy. If we each have 15 hours to play a week, and I spend mine building a powerful weapon and you spend yours having fun that doesn't make you lazy...it just makes my character better than yours eventually. That's how shit works, it's how it should work, and it's how it will work in any legitimate MMO.

This is the same old, "I want good gear, but I don't like to farm for gil because it's not fun!" debate that's been in the game forever. There's nothing wrong with spending all of your time (or more of your time) on the game having fun and neglecting the less enjoyable aspects to build up your character, but you can't turn around and have it both ways because it cheapens the game.

Missing the point. We want balance and equality. What we do with our own time is to each their own. But when we go and spend our time like others on this gear, we expect to some degree to get similar results as others.

And don't you dare bring skill in as the determining factor in that. It sure as hell doesn't take skill to sit in a spot with our thumbs up our asses for 5-10 hours a pop on some NMs. A Mentally handicapped 3 year old could do it, But does that mean some players should be treated as one? No. Luck is one thing, then there is stupidity. And to reach the level of stupidity is to ask anymore then 2 hours wait; a pop on any NM in the game.

And 2 hours appears to be the norm, just look at the AV and PW Turf and Nerf time cap after that 18 hour PW incident.

[Zerich]

But it doesn't have to be boring or tedious. Timesink isn't a problem, it's the nature of the timesink.

No one is holding a gun to your head, telling you to stay logged in (or even stay in that area) for the non-repop windows that most NMs have. Pick up crafting or farm the too-weak mobs in the area for materials. And with the nature of rewards that you are asking for; to have no type of frustration or difficulty on your part is just absurd.

I understand that idling for hours upon hours about a mob is not anyone's idea for fun. Don't get me wrong, when doing empy trials I LOATHE it. However, the game supplies you with plenty of things to do to fill that void of time (that we'd consider the 'timesink') to make it not so much a burden.

Just wanted to recap, TIMESINKS SUCK, yet you are playing an MMORPG (something that guarantee's it's PROFIT from the TIMESINK). I'd complain about the OP's inability to have another outlet of fun in their life.

[Zerich]

Perhaps Square Enix could provide another leg for these trials? Something like killing a bunch of a specific monster. That way you could either go the 'fast' route of NM hunting (because lottery pops can get lucky), or the guaranteed route of monster slashing.

lol they do, it's called elemental weapon trials

[Meyi]

The point I want to make is that someone who doesn't put all 10 hours of their playtime into something that will benefit them later instead of instantly shouldn't expect to be rewarded higher than other players.

And I'm saying they could put the 10 hours into a sitting and walk away with no progress. Especially if they don't put all 10 hours of their playtime into one sitting/session.

Like it or not, an MMO is going to have the concept of working towards a goal.

I agree, but again working towards a goal doesn't always mean actually reaching the goal.

lol they do, it's called elemental weapon trials

...

I was referring to the empyrean weapon trials for NM kills having an alternative route. Trust me, I know about Elemental Magian Weapon Trials.

[Camiie]

No one is holding a gun to your head, telling you to stay logged in (or even stay in that area) for the non-repop windows that most NMs have. Pick up crafting or farm the too-weak mobs in the area for materials. And with the nature of rewards that you are asking for; to have no type of frustration or difficulty on your part is just absurd.

Difficulty is fine. I never ever said there should be no difficulty. Make it harder for all I care, just don't make it boring.
To auto-translate it for you <fun> <excitement> <Can I have it?> Yes things in an MMO have to take time. High-end items have to take even longer. They DO NOT HAVE TO BE BORING, DULL, OR TEDIOUS.

I'm sorry to be mean, but people need to get their heads out of SE's <rear>, devs and players included. Go try other MMOs and other RPGs. There ARE other ways to challenge AND entertain at the same time. It doesn't have to be easy, it does HAVE to be fun otherwise you just end up with a MMORP. Last I checked this was a MMORPG. Until they drop the G from the end I expect fun even in the most hardcore of content.

I understand that idling for hours upon hours about a mob is not anyone's idea for fun. Don't get me wrong, when doing empy trials I LOATHE it. However, the game supplies you with plenty of things to do to fill that void of time (that we'd consider the 'timesink') to make it not so much a burden.

Just wanted to recap, TIMESINKS SUCK, yet you are playing an MMORPG (something that guarantee's it's PROFIT from the TIMESINK). I'd complain about the OP's inability to have another outlet of fun in their life.

This is the mentality we need to break. Timesinks do not have to suck. Sometimes I think, much like SE, the player base often just doesn't know any better.

[cidbahamut]

It truly baffles me that people will defend bad game design with such ferocity.

[FrankReynolds]

Oh ok, then you're just wrong and like to jump to your own conclusions. Most people do that, I'm sorry for saying it was retarded. Also, something doesn't automatically become an opinion because people are arguing about it. It's a very aggravating misconception that people have here.

I didn't jump to conclusions. You posted about your play time. Its doesn't match up with the Spawn windows. Your lying and / or exaggerating something here to give weight to your argument. I don't really care which.

I called people short-sighted and pointed out that for accomplishment to exist in this game you have to include sacrificing immediate enjoyment for future enjoyment. If anything, playing a video game in the first place is lazy.

There are other forms of sacrifice besides boredom. As a matter of fact, boredom is usually what people are trying to alleviate when they create / play a game. It shouldn't be part of one.

Spending your time 'inefficiently' and expecting to benefit from it is just short-sighted, it's not lazy. If we each have 15 hours to play a week, and I spend mine building a powerful weapon and you spend yours having fun that doesn't make you lazy...it just makes my character better than yours eventually. That's how shit works, it's how it should work, and it's how it will work in any legitimate MMO.

People should be able to have fun doing this stuff. Trials where the guy who plays the longest and hardest, and makes the best decisions gets the gear fastest make sense. Trials where the guy who passes out while in party with a bunch of JP players and lets them camp the mob for him gets the gear are lame.

This is the same old, "I want good gear, but I don't like to farm for gil because it's not fun!" debate that's been in the game forever. There's nothing wrong with spending all of your time (or more of your time) on the game having fun and neglecting the less enjoyable aspects to build up your character, but you can't turn around and have it both ways because it cheapens the game.

How does changing a quest from "Stand in one place with your thumb up your ass for 27 hours, and then report back to the magian moogle" to -----> "go kill <insert number that is equal to 27 hours of thumb up your ass here> of X monster, and report back to the magian moogle" cheapen the game?

Unfortunately, this whole issue borders on an economics debate and the level of intelligence on this board (for whatever reason) has been ridiculous since it was opened.

lol at the guy with 300+ posts who makes fun of the forum for having stupid posters.

As for my first post: Compare it to the OP to get the context.

He was angry and wrote in all caps (the only similarity between his post and yours). If he goes back and removes the caps lock, he still has brought up a very valid point. Taking the caps lock off on your post wouldn't change the fact that you came in here trying to pick a fight. I don't see why you would bring that up.

I'm saying that it's easy enough as it is (which I think is self-evident by the number of empyrean weapons lying around) and that anyone can do it.

The problem isn't really with the difficulty, no matter how bad you want it to be. It's with the fact that standing around is not difficult OR fun. If people were in here complaining about the VNM part, I could see you making an argument, but people just want to actually get credit for the work they put in. Currently, the guy who gets 8 hour pop windows on every NM still gets the same weapon. More importantly, he's not playing. He's standing in one place. You don't need to pay $11.95 a month to do nothing. It's free. How far should they be allowed to take this? What if they just say "If you don't log in for 6 months, we will give you a level 99 relic of your choice."? That might be the most challenging trial ever huh?

[Selzak]

Friend camps a NM for Magians, gets 4 for 4 in a row with 1 hour on the dot respawns. I camped the same nm some time later. I got for 1 hour pop, 8 hour pop, 12 hour pop, 10 hour pop. Who sacrificed "more" immediate enjoyment for future enjoyment? I'm not looking for a handout on a silver platter like my friend, but I sure as hell don't want a handout on a paper plate that's been shit on twice over and soaked in the piss of a skunk.

That's a legitimate argument and I can get behind it. The idea of pseudo-randomness has always been a big part of this game though, and it extends to most aspects of it. Whether that's a good decision or not (I think it's not) is genuinely debatable. Thanks for making an actual point.

If this is all we're arguing about, I agree. It's other stuff, like "Doing X isn't fun...but I want Y!" where Y is something rewarding that not many people should have that I've been trying to address.

I didn't jump to conclusions. You posted about your play time. Its doesn't match up with the Spawn windows. Your lying and / or exaggerating something here to give weight to your argument. I don't really care which.

So it's impossible to kill an NM with an 8, 9, 10, or 20 hour spawn window with only two hours of attention? While it's possible for an NM to take a long-ass time to spawn, most of the the lottery spawns take about two hours on average. All you need is the ToD in your log and to be able to add time.

lol at the guy with 300+ posts who makes fun of the forum for having stupid posters.

lol at logical fallacy. Penguin says: Lots of birds fly!

[Camiie]

If this is all we're arguing about, I agree. It's other stuff, like "Doing X isn't fun...but I want Y!" where Y is something rewarding that not many people should have that I've been trying to address.

So, is making something mind-numbingly tedious really the best way to separate the best from the rest? I agree that it is a successful roadblock to progress, but I think it is appropriate to discuss whether it is a valid one in a game environment.

Many of us think it is not valid even in an MMORPG where the rules of gaming often seem to not apply. I know I would prefer it if they did in this case. What's so wrong about that?