Cure Formula Changes

[Aleste]

I've been refraining from commenting on the effects of the cure changes since the update rolled out. I've been trying to get into the swing of recalculating gear sets and trying to get more comfortable with casting cure3(4) more often.

Honestly, as far as WHM goes I've been:
Casting cure5 (and 3/4 when timer is down and a heal is required) in fights where accruing a large amount of hate is bad.
Casting cure3/4 for peak efficiency on fights where enmity isn't a concern.

A minor problem I've found is that there are very few fights where you particularly have to worry about enmity anymore (be it from other players capping it quicker, or temp items that give pax) which has lead to a reduction of casting Cure5.

I've been mulling over gearsets, and I believe to have settled on these 2. The top is for Cure1-4. Bottom is Cure 5-6.


Itemsets:
Cure 1-4 http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/254971
Cure 5-6 http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/250420

Edit: Typos

[Economizer]

Been in contact with Furen/Steve once again. He's upgraded his legendary calculator, however I didn't provide him with enough information for it to be completely correct (I forgot how the rounding was done for the spreadsheet). Still, it is pretty close:

Calculator

Does anyone remember how the rounding was carried out for the formula? Was it add all the modifiers up then round down or round the modifiers as you calculated them? Also anything else I should be telling Furen/Steve for the calculator to be more accurate?

[Aleste]

Every number was floored in the calculation before adding them.

power = skill + floor(MND/2) + floor(VIT/4)

Probably should make him note that curagas, blue magic and waltzs still use the old formula.

[Fredjan]

Not sure if this has been covered, but I decided to do some math to end the Arka IV vs. Tefnut + Shield discussion once and for all as I had seen some shouts in Port Jeuno that motivated me to do this.

Note that this does not cover cure casting time- on the shield, this is pure potency/skill/mnd/vit (barely) comparisons as I am not a Tefnut+Shield user and I can cap cure casting time- in gear without that.

Arka IV (24% potency)
Curatio Grip (3 skill)
Mana Ampulla (MND+3)
Iaso Mitra (10 skill, 11% potency, 10 MND)
Phalaina Locket (3 MND, 4% potency)
Orison + Roundel Earring (7% potency)
AF3+2 body (+20 skill)
Healer's Mitts +1 (7 MND, 15 skill)
Haoma's Ring (8 skill)
Sirona's Ring (3 MND, 3 VIT, 10 skill)
Tempered Cape (4 skill, 4% potency)
Bishop's Sash (5 skill)
AF3+2 pants (7 MND)
Zenith Pumps +1 (6 skill augment)

Total: +50% potency, +81 healing skill, and +33 MND (Not going to factor the VIT as it is the same in both sets I thought up)

Tefnut Wand (15% potency, 10 MND, 5 skill)
Genbu's Shield (5% potency)
Mana Ampulla (MND+3)
Iaso Mitra (10 skill, 11% potency, 10 MND)
Phalaina Locket (3 MND, 4% potency)
Orison + Roundel Earring (7% potency)
AF3+2 body (+20 skill)
Augur's Gloves (7 MND, 5 skill, 4 potency)
Haoma's Ring (8 skill)
Sirona's Ring (3 MND, 3 VIT, 10 skill)
Tempered Cape (4 skill, 4% potency)
Bishop's Sash (5 skill)
AF3+2 pants (7 MND)
Zenith Pumps +1 (6 skill augment)

Total: +50% potency, +73 skill, +43 MND

Differences:
Staff/Grip has 8 more skill
Club/Shield has 10 more MND

8 skill > 10 MND

And that's that. If that was discussed earlier in the thread already, disregard, but I felt this needed to be shown to prove that Tefnut+Genbu's in ideal situations is inferior now. It was to an extent slightly better, but now it isn't even with the best gear possible.

[Aleste]

Zenith Pumps +1 (6 skill augment)

Augmented zenith pumps would have 4% potency on them (ideally) allowing you to change the neck for healing/collossus' torque to gain an extra 7(10) skill at the cost of 4 MND. Though, this mis-count occurs in both sets, so the net effect doesn't change.


ADDITIONAL MULTI-EDIT::

Arka IV (24% potency)
Curatio Grip (3 skill)
Mana Ampulla (MND+3)
Iaso Mitra (10 skill, 11% potency, 10 MND)
Phalaina Locket (3 MND, 4% potency)
Orison + Roundel Earring (7% potency)
AF3+2 body (+20 skill)
Healer's Mitts +1 (7 MND, 15 skill)
Haoma's Ring (8 skill)
Sirona's Ring (3 MND, 3 VIT, 10 skill)
Tempered Cape (4 skill, 4% potency)
Bishop's Sash (5 skill)
AF3+2 pants (7 MND)
Rubeus Boots (10 skill)

50% Pot, 85 skill, 33 MND 3 VIT
~+102 power

Arka IV (24% potency)
Curatio Grip (3 skill)
Mana Ampulla (MND+3)
Iaso Mitra (10 skill, 11% potency, 10 MND)
Collossus' Torque (7-10 skill)
Orison + Roundel Earring (7% potency)
AF3+2 body (+20 skill)
Healer's Mitts +1 (7 MND, 15 skill)
Haoma's Ring (8 skill)
Sirona's Ring (3 MND, 3 VIT, 10 skill)
Tempered Cape (4 skill, 4% potency)
Bishop's Sash (5 skill)
AF3+2 pants (7 MND)
Zenith Pumps +1(6 skill 4% potency)

50% Pot, 91 skill, 30 MND 3 VIT
~+106 power

Tefnut Wand (15% potency, 10MND, 5 skill)
Genbus Shield (5% potency)
Mana Ampulla (MND+3)
Iaso Mitra (10 skill, 11% potency, 10 MND)
Phalaina Locket (3 MND, 4% potency)
Orison + Roundel Earring (7% potency)
AF3+2 body (+20 skill)
Healer's Mitts +1 (7 MND, 15 skill)
Haoma's Ring (8 skill)
Sirona's Ring (3 MND, 3 VIT, 10 skill)
Tempered Cape (4 skill, 4% potency)
Bishop's Sash (5 skill)
AF3+2 pants (7 MND)
Zenith Pumps +1(6 skill 4% potency)

50% Pot, 83 skill, 44 MND 3 VIT
~+105 power

[Fredjan]

[EDIT: Okay, those two sets would result in similar performances, didn't really doublecheck. Derp. Basically re-posting this as my general summary was incorrect due to forgetting zenith pumps +1's cure potency augment.]

I would picture that Tefnut set winning outside of Lightsday where the Arka IV setup will win due to the extra healing magic skill. This is what I just put on the Tefnut Wand page on FFXIAH:

Post-healing magic skill update:

See the following item sets for comparison (VIT+ is the same for both sets):

Item set # 255028 - Staff
Total bonuses: +50% Potency, +88~91 Healing Magic Skill, +30 MND

Item set # 256460 - Tefnut / Shield
Total bonuses: 50% potency, +83 skill, +43 MND

The staff build DOES have more skill, but considering 1 skill ~ 2 MND, the +13 MND on the Tefnut set accounts to an extra ~6.5 skill roughly so it would be SLIGHTLY better (+1.5~ skill advantage worth of potency) outside of Lightsday where the Staff build will win regardless.

Suppose it boils down to preference nowadays. Get lucky on Genbu's augments? Use Tefnut. Don't like club/shield? Use staff. There's situations one is better than the other, at least until more gear comes out. There isn't a given "X is always better than Y" here.

In order for Tefnut + Genbu's to be better, you not only need 5 potency on Genbu's, but perfect augments on zenith pumps +1 (these are in fact mandatory, you would need perfect augments on these for the build to win in the long run). While that helps both builds, it's enough to give the Tefnut set a 1.5 skill advantage (from the MND difference being worth approximately 6.5 skill). Iaso Boots wouldn't be enough either, you flat out need the skill.

Factoring builds without Zenith Pumps +1 would factor using Rubeus Boots for skill instead, while switching out hands (Healer's Mitts +1 > Augur's Gloves) to reach 50% for a Tefnut set and honestly giving up 10 healing magic skill is too damaging in that situation (however in this situation both sets would be using Phalaina Locket anyway). That is how required zenith pumps +1 are for a Tefnut build. Quite a bit of effort for a marginal improvement, and I do mean marginal. And on Lightsday, all that effort would be for naught vs. a staff/grip build using the same gear except for Colossus's Torque over Phalaina.

[Aleste]

I suppose it all depends on how you specifically feel about the club/shield combo.

Non-lightsday, the club/shield combo with perfect augments will pull 1.5 power higher than the perfect staff equivalent.
Lightsday, the staff set pulls ahead of the club/shield combo by 1.5 power.

This however doesn't change during lightsday (or weather) for optimal max cure... we'd prefer to use korin obi and twilight cape for the additional day/weather bonus;

The staff set (collossus'/zenith) changes as such:
back to twilight cape [-4% potency, -4skill, gain day/weather boost]
waist to korin obi [-5 skill, gain day/weather boost]
neck to Phalaina locket [-7 skill, +3mnd, +4% potency]
>Net worth: -16 skill, +3MND, 1.5 day/weather boost.
Set drops from ~103 power to ~88

The tefnut/genbu set changes as such:
back to twilight cape [-4% potency, -4skill, gain day/weather boost]
waist to korin obi [-5 skill, gain day/weather boost]
hands to augurs mitts [-10 skill +4% potency]
>Net worth: -19 skill, 1.5 day/weather boost
Set drops from ~105 power to ~86

Seems that when the sets are modified to take korin obi/cape into account, it still sits ~2 power ahead.

So under perfectly ideal situations, the club/shield combo will cure stronger by an exceptionally small amount on average (when you factor in 1/8 day chance and the scarcity of light weather).

Sidenote: Personal mileage will vary.

[Fredjan]

Yeah, it boils down to preference. Either option is going to work (although Tefnut build takes more effort to beat Arka IV build obviously). I occasionally overheal a target anyways and don't see the maximum amount my cures even do. Admitedly I'm more paranoid in VW when my DDs can be oneshotted and temps ensure MP is near infinite (as long as they're properly replenished, anyway). 1.5 skill bonus isn't something I'd factor as noticeable enough to completely justify the change (given the potential costs involved).

Light weather isn't something I'd honestly factor either unless you're doing Nyzul on WHM or something since it's always active there, or once Limbus gets renewed and Temenos gets additions.

/does listings for lightsday/light weather for personal reference:
Staff +50% Potency, +88-16 Healing Magic Skill, +30+3 MND becomes:
+50% potency, +72 skill, +33 MND.
Tefnut/Genbu set: 50% potency, +83 skill, +43 MND -19 skill becomes:
+50% potency, +64 skill, +43 MND.

And then it's down to 8 skill vs. 10 MND again.

tl;dr: We agree, but I do tend to ramble. lol I also can't justify carrying more gear for such a minimal impact. It's reasons like that that I'd also be carrying an Arka IV build around, and in my reasoning, guess it boils down to keeping it simple.

[Aleste]

Yeah, not disagreeing with anything, the math is right on both accounts. It's nice to know that those with tefnut wands won't have to worry about the price depreciating on them anytime soon.

Personally I've been interested in the most efficient -enmity set (presuming capped potency) and the reduction it has on overall cure power.

[Fredjan]

Yeah, not disagreeing with anything, the math is right on both accounts. It's nice to know that those with tefnut wands won't have to worry about the price depreciating on them anytime soon.

Personally I've been interested in the most efficient -enmity set (presuming capped potency) and the reduction it has on overall cure power.

That reminds me, I've been uncertain of how effective Tranquil Heart is. Easy enough to build an -enmity set, but that job trait could have a value that counts as additional gear enmity- and we all know it caps at -50.

Even without that though, aiming for capped potency and capped enmity- is rather difficult. At least Tranquil Heart in theory helps with this, I just don't know how much it does.

Arka IV
Pax Grip
Leisure Musk
Iaso Mitra
Phalaina Locket
Orison Earring
Roundel Earring
Orison Bliaud +2
Blessed Mitts +1 (first thing that came into my head with decent enmity-, likely something better here)
Metanoia Ring
Trooper's Ring
Tempered Cape
Theta Sash (again, there's that -7 belt, but...)
Orison Pantaloons +2
Marduk's Crackows

Undoubtedly missing the better pieces as it took me a whole 1 minute to think that set up, but that keeps 50% potency and like -37 enmity. A fair bit of loss of skill in that set which I'd consider pretty noticeable, but if one's comfortable with less, easy enough to replace some of the enmity- gear with skill+.