Cure Formula Changes

[TimeMage]

Changes have been pretty good, but other than fixing Cure VI (seriously, SE... Give it a purpose that is not sucking!), I think they could revise the static enmity values of Cure V. At 75, the enmity difference against Cure IV was more noticeable, and now that Cure IV is much more MP efficient, Cure V could use a slight improvement in the enmity department.

BTW, has anyone tested if this changes affect the WHM and RDM PUP automatons? RDM auto could become really interesting with boosted Cure IVs, and the tendency of spamming Cure VI of WHM automaton could be more annoying now, haha.

[Aleste]

BTW, has anyone tested if this changes affect the WHM and RDM PUP automatons? RDM auto could become really interesting with boosted Cure IVs, and the tendency of spamming Cure VI of WHM automaton could be more annoying now, haha.

Eco's been asking me to check the values on this, cura, curaga and BLU cures, but I can't say I've had a moment free to test it...

I'd hazard a guess and assume that they're using the new formula, otherwise they would have included it in the bolded part below:

Reference quote:

Cure Potency
Cure potency will be affected more significantly by healing magic skill. If a player has high healing magic skill, cure potency will be greatly increased, but low healing magic skill will have almost no effect on cure potency. The effect of skill level on cure potency will vary based on the type of cure, but cures lower than Cure V will be affected the most. Note that Curaga, Cura and Waltzes will not be affected.

• Cure I-IV: Up to 1.4 times the normal cure potency
• Cure V-VI: Almost no change

With this adjustment combined with the increase of cure potency mentioned earlier, we would like to increase opportunities for mages jobs other than white mage to serve as healers.[/LIST]

[Economizer]

Eco's been asking me to check the values on this, cura, curaga and BLU cures, but I can't say I've had a moment free to test it...

They also said there is no change to Blue Magic and I believe somewhere they even said no change to automatons (I wouldn't give my guarantee that I actually saw that one however). On most of those I just want a test to be absolutely sure, but it would probably just be a waste of your time sadly.

If anyone wants to test, it would be fairly simple though, just test a Cura (under Afflatus Solace or no WHM job ability to be sure) and a Curaga, both on and off the test server, with the same setup (it is very unlikely that both will be the same if they've been changed). If they do what SE says it should be the same in both cases, which is the result I'd expect. Same with Blue Magic, just pick a spell, BLU/RDM it up, test on and off the test server.

It is gonna be strange having to gear MND for AoE cures while gearing Healing Magic for single target ones, even stranger then Cure V not being the most MP efficient cure on the block.

[Aleste]

I recall someone saying that Camate posted it, but I'm unable to find it... maybe you'll have more luck ?

Should be easy to test (BLU cures), I doubt the constant has changed from the old formula...

[Economizer]

I recall someone saying that Camate posted it, but I'm unable to find it... maybe you'll have more luck ?

I did, and I was about to edit my previous post, but I'll just add it here instead. Spoiler'd is the whole thing, I've also taken the important parts.

Howdy!

Here are some responses from the development team to questions regarding the cure potency adjustments.

Was receiving benefits from stacking MND put off?

After looking into various possibilities such a MND and healing magic skill itself, we decided to go with adjustments to healing magic skill after considering the benefits this would give to jobs that possess this skill. MND affects cure potency more than in the past and the effect will remain as it is.

Will there be any changes to the success rate of removing Death?

With the current system, the higher the healing magic skill, the higher the success rate will be. However, to balance this with the rate of success of Holy Water, there is no 100% success rate even if your skill is very high.

Will the values of blue magic-type healing spells also be increased?

Since the main focus of this adjustment is for Cure–Cure VI, there will be no changes to blue magic spell’s cure potency.

With this adjustment, when using Cure IV with +50% cure potency, you can cure for around 850 HP, so it would be really nice if you could lower the amount of enmity gained after curing.

Since a fundamental rule of battle is that enmity increases as the amount of HP you restore increases, after considering the relationship of Cure V and Cure VI, this rule is being maintained. It would be best to mitigate this increase with Tranquil Heart and equipment that decreases enmity.

Will the values of blue magic-type healing spells also be increased?

Since the main focus of this adjustment is for Cure–Cure VI, there will be no changes to blue magic spell’s cure potency.

So here is the bit about Blue Magic. I honestly can't find the automaton thing but I really thought I saw it.

Was receiving benefits from stacking MND put off?

After looking into various possibilities such a MND and healing magic skill itself, we decided to go with adjustments to healing magic skill after considering the benefits this would give to jobs that possess this skill. MND affects cure potency more than in the past and the effect will remain as it is.

I had forgotten I had seen this. To clarify, here is the part that bugs me:

MND affects cure potency more than in the past

[SpankWustler]

That part caught my attention when it was first posted, because I couldn't figure out when "the past" was referring to.

He mentioned that MND was not being adjusted but then said it had more of an effect than in the past, implying there was a time when MND had even less of an effect on Cures than it has at this very moment. I assume it is either a reference to an extremely old update that I can not even remember, or the vaguest and most unclear reference ever to Cure V becoming much more prevalent as players have gone from 75 to 99.

There was a big update to the Cure line back in 2003, but the update notes don't mention MND. Maybe it was later than that if it existed at all? I no longer expect what the Community Bros say or what the Development Bros do to make sense, so I didn't look too hard.

[saevel]

Yep he's referring to the old cure update in either or 03 or 04. It's the one where they lifted the hardcaps on cures. You can add more MND and it would give you slightly more cure amount.

I'm interested to see what happens to BLU magic, it used the Cure V formula just less base cure amount. They said they have no plans to change Blue cure magic, yet I wonder how they go translated to their actual coders.

[Aleste]

Efficiency numbers worry me... I don't feel that it's progressing the way it should...

Cure1 : 4.57 -> 31.33 -> 42.00
Cure2 : 3.43 -> 18.82 -> 25.36
Cure3 : 3.58 -> 26.00 -> 35.06
Cure4 : 3.89 -> 24.42 -> 32.94
Cure5 : 3.20 -> 16.79 -> 22.65
Cure6 : 1.96 -> 10.32 - >13.28
[ Cureskin/MP -> Cure/MP -> Cure+Cureskin/MP ]
[ 99WHM/SCH, Light arts, AF3 body/legs, Solace ]

Overall I feel that Cure6 is pretty useless now and isn't worth casting (less-so with the bolster to cure3/4s strength) when compared against the MP cost.

EDIT:: There's a thought, I wonder how it compares against those Regen numbers I ran ages ago.

Regen 3 (gear, merits - 700hp) 10.93 HP/MP
Regen 4 (gear, merits - 975hp) 11.98 HP/MP

[Economizer]

Regens might be slightly better now with the AF2+2 body's new boost (assuming you didn't account for that), but not by much. But really, what White Mage in their right mind merits regen or carries around regen gear when the boosts are so small and the opportunity costs are so high?

That said Scholar's regen spells boosted with strats even make a White Mage with great gear have their cure spells look inefficient by a wide margin. I think I would have a very hard time ranking who is the better healer after these changes - and any situation where you need more nuking support occasionally or anything where 2hour abilities are concerned is a straight up win for Scholar.

Overall I feel that Cure6 is pretty useless now and isn't worth casting (less-so with the bolster to cure3/4s strength) when compared against the MP cost.

This is definitely a problem. We're not exactly asking for Cure VI to cure more, it just costs too much and this has been a problem since before the changes were even put up for testing.

There are a myriad of ways to fix Cure VI that I've thought of just brainstorming with other White Mages like Aleste, but the simplest and easiest one is just to cut the MP cost. Even if Cure V/VI are fated to eat more MP then Cure I-IV I still feel that Cure VI costs too much, even for an "emergency" cure.

By the way, if decreasing the MP cost isn't on the table, I figured I'd list some of the ideas that have been thrown out about Cure VI, any one of these implemented would be an improvement:

• Largely increased Cureskin
  Perhaps a 50% cureskin effect that scales to 100% with the AF3+2 body (with no cap obviously)?
• Enhanced Cureskin
  Cureskin takes reduced damage as if the target had a ton of defense and magic defense.
• Reduces enmity when cast
  Literally lowers the enmity on the White Mage when this spell is cast. Optionally it could also add that enmity to the target.
• Lowered cast/recast time
  It costs a ton but has a near-instant cast time, or no recast time.
• Provides a buff tied to cureskin
  Like Plenilune Embrace it could buff the target with enhanced stats while the cureskin is still on the target.
• Increases Cure Potency Received on target
  A short duration buff to cure potency received on the target depending on HP cured. It could either last for multiple cures or just the next one.
• Enhanced Afflatus Solace charge rate for Holy
  Single Cure VI casting curing for maximum HP could fill the charge to full.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

• Enhanced Cureskin
  Cureskin takes reduced damage as if the target had a ton of defense and magic defense.

I like this one, the rest are either weird for a cure spell or OP, maybe even a -25% DT trait for the duration.