Cure Formula Changes

[Aleste]

cat

That... I... I can't help but smile at that face >.>;

Retested MND and VIT scaling (0-25) at 430 skill.

I'm guessing there are some soft caps at work there that is throwing off making any assumptions...

EDIT:// We've now got a formula for cure power.

Cure 1/2/3 graph

[Economizer]

Okay so as the testing gets more and more wrapped up I feel the time for analyzing the implications of the change that is being tested gets closer and closer.

Skill: 430 MND: 122 VIT: 86
AF3+2 pants and 50% cure potency

• Cure: 22.5HP/MP
• Cure II: 16.87HP/MP
• Cure III: 22.65HP/MP
• Cure IV: 22.26HP/MP
• Cure V: 15.95HP/MP
• Cure VI: 9.75HP/MP

Note that none of these are factoring in cureskin effects.

Personally, despite the nerfed Cure V/VI values I'm currently not really too upset about how much HP they heal but rather how inefficient they are now. Cutting the MP cost of both spells would be an easy way to make up for their loss of power, especially if magic users will be able to cast large Cure III/IV spells now (one of us will get to this at some point, I'm sure).

If Cure V's MP cost was dropped to 112 MP (a mere 23 MP difference) it would remain competitive with the other cure spells before it. The same would be true of Cure VI if it was dropped to about 142 MP. However it is possible that it is SE's intention that Cure VI remains slightly MP inefficient as an emergency cure. And this would be understandable if it was special in some way aside from the enhanced enmity properties but this is currently not the case. Perhaps the cureskin effect on Cure VI could be enhanced in some way such as providing a -50% damage taken buff while it is still on (effectively doubling the maximum 400 point stoneskin effect for players who have not capped damage reduction to a maximum 800 point version) or greatly increasing the defense of the player who has the cureskin effect until it wears off.

These are major changes as it is so I really hope people understand the implications of what is happening here. Everyone needs Healing Magic support at one point or another and I don't know very many players who solely rely on Blue Magic, pets, and potions to cure them so the effects these numbers will have on the game are simply huge.

[saevel]

Has someone replied to the dev's about Cure V / VI receiving a slight nerf? While we like to think things like that are on purpose, it could of been something the dev's missed while redoing the cure formula. The dev's like WHM, liked so much that they refused to give Cure V to anyone else. I have a hard time thinking they would then nerf it on purpose.

Also Cure IV comes with the penalty of a metric f*ck ton of hate if cast over time. I know on RDM/SCH I used to pull hate curing with Cure IV during lv 95 void watch (before procs become easy). Using that to main heal would be a death sentence for a healer.

[Aleste]

Well, they did warn us of a 'slight adjustment', which we presumed to be bad. It's always bad :S Math-wise, the average WHM dropped about 10-40 points on cure V, which isn't a huge nerf to the spell. Efficiency has more or less remained the same as well.

The trouble is more that the other spells received a 40-60% increase over the old formula, whilst cure 5/6 (at best) remained approximately the same... I guess at this point in time it is difficult to say whether 30% HP/MP efficiency is worth the enmity generation.

Although, the comparable efficiency of the spells is one thing we're worried about, there are a number of things we've lightly discussed in googledoc-chat... (changes to gear, SCHs new healing prowess, item economy)


Motenten hopefully will have finalized Cure1-4 formula and soft caps; so today I'll work on getting a larger selection of Cure 5/6 values and hopefully perform a graphical analysis to help confirm motentens predicted soft caps/rates.

EDIT:// figure I'll throw in what the scales are. Horizontal scale is healing power, calculated by the formula that we discovered. POWER = SKILL + MND/2 + VIT/4 (each individual term truncated). Vertical scale is HP healed with 0% potency.



Cure1 graph:


Cure2 graph:


Cure3 graph:


Cure4 graph:


INITIAL Cure5 graph:


INITIAL Cure6 graph:

[Aleste]

[Space saved for analysis/thoughts]

Rough napkin math::
Using an ideal build...
WHM cure5 is ~1120. cure4 ~890
SCH cure4 ~1005, ~1605 raptured w/+2 head

Mage food is now pretty terrible.

Wondering whether it's worthwhile rolling a 49% potency build.. the difference is 1hp cured on cure5, 2 inventory, and gaining -2enm.

Cure5 doesn't scale as much comparatively via healing magic skill as the other cure values.

Possibility of SCH/RDM (job combo) taking the healing magic crown with strong cure4's (can achieve capped -enm in nigh-perfect build), regen5 potency, embrava and phalanxga.

Tefnut/genbu combo isn't as strong as magian staff build.

Cure6 was terrible before, now it's even worse.

MND gear will now primarily be used for enfeebles, WS mods and divine magic.

Healing magic skill gear (and merits) is now incredibly useful.

[SpankWustler]

Another implication is that a Blue Magic healing set and a normal Healing Magic healing set will soon look totally different since Healing Magic skill will matter so much. My inventory is doomed.

I am almost impressed by how bad Cure VI will be. I imagine one of the Development Bros beaming with pride and schadenfreude after bringing it's efficiency below 10 and well-below half that of Cure IV.

If Cure VI is meant to be that inefficient both in general and compared to the new standard of Cure IV, I'd really like to see some bonus added to it. A special property in the cureskin or a .5 second casting time or CHARGIN MAH HOLY LAZER for the full value regardless of how much HP is restored or something.

This is more a matter of principle than practicality, I guess. The solution is just not to use it but I hate useless spells when it feels like they could easily be given value.

[Aleste]

Right click and view image for larger version.

[Motenten]

Some efficiency charts.

Without light arts:



With light arts:



With light arts and whm af3 pants (assuming no over-curing):




Analysis:

Whm is going to generally be around 500-ish power. Using Light Arts and AF3 pants, Cure V would run a little over 8 HP/MP. Cures 3 and 4 would be up around 11.

Rdm or Sch using Light Arts and Cures 3/4, and assuming somewhere near 500 power, would be hitting 7 HP/MP (or 10-ish for sch with Rapture).

Cures 3 and 4 are clearly the efficiency spells. Cure 5 is acceptable with AF3 pants, and trades efficiency for low enmity. Cure 6 kinda sucks no matter what.

[Motenten]

Also, quick comparison of base amount cured with Cure V and Cure VI, since it was noted that the max caps had been reduced.

Assuming:
439 skill (Light Arts, otherwise uncapped) with 35 in gear (body/hands/ring)
125-128-131 mnd (taru/hume/elvaan) with +35 in gear (head/hands/rings/ammo/feet/waist)
83-86-89 vit (taru/hume/elvaan) with Sirona's ring

Old Power    Cure V    Cure VI
Taru: 719    717 HP     929 HP
Hume: 731    720 HP     935 HP
Elvn: 743    722 HP     943 HP

New Power
Taru: 521    726 HP     902 HP
Hume: 524    727 HP     904 HP
Elvn: 526    727 HP     905 HP

Cure V ends up being a smidge ahead with a typical gear set, so the reduction in the cap doesn't mean much; it's right in line with where it's always been.

Cure VI ends up being 3%-4% behind, which is enough that, combined with the very high MP cost, warrants a bit of concern. We should probably ask that Cure VI be reviewed by the devs.

[Economizer]

Looks like the testing team finished hammering out the rest of the formula while I was asleep earlier (sorry guys!) and we now have the official formula.

As per what we should be testing now are a few quick tests on stuff SE has stated haven't changed such as Automatons, Blue Magic, Cura, Curaga spells, and the Light Spirit (SE didn't mention this one that I remember actually). This should be pretty simple to do since it is a easy check of the test server vs. the game just to be sure nothing else has changed (and it probably hasn't). A less easy to test bit of interest are NPCs and monsters and cures.

Bit of an aside, any Community Reps wanna check out the formula we have and confirm it to be true?

-

Since we have the numbers I think it is time explain implications and answer questions. I've compiled some questions I've seen here and the other forum the cure numbers have been posted for the benefit of the reader:

• With the new emphasis on healing skill, will jobs with only subbed healing skill have their cures be weakened?
  No, cures for subjobs are not being weakened relative to their power now since that would gimp low level healers. They will be much less then a main job cure but in general they are significantly more powerful then before assuming you have capped skill for your subjob.
• How is Blue Mage affected by this change?
  According to statements by SE (which we kindly quoted previously in this thread) there should be none. However we haven't tested changes to spirits, pets, Blue Mages, Cura, or Curaga spells yet so we only have SE's statements to go by on these.
• Will Red Mage and Scholar be able to main heal now?
  In Scholar's case, most definitely. In Red Mage's, most probably.
  The case that SCH is now the most powerful healing job is one that could be made quite easily between larger Cure III/IV, obscenely efficient Regen V spells, AoE Phalanx with /RDM, and even Embrava in situations where speed is important. And arguably for most stuff even just a Red Mage would suffice.
• Where is Paladin in all this?
  Curing almost as much as the rest, the main thing holding Paladin back now is a lack of cure potency gear. Regardless a Paladin should be able to pull more hate then before with cure spells due to the increased cure amounts.
• What gear should I be equipping now?
  If you are a White Mage, equip your AF3+2 pants. For maximum cures, the general rule of thumb will be Cure Potency > Healing Magic >>> MND >> VIT. Enmity down gear will probably help if you are bombing Cure III/IV, especially if you are a Scholar. A bit of Fast Cast and Haste will help recast timers as well.
• What should I be meriting now?
  Mind merits now suck for healing since you'll only be able to get +6 power with full Mind merits now. Meriting Healing Magic is actually a viable choice now, since +16 Healing Magic is +16 power.
• Will the update fix Cure VI?
  No. It broke it more. Cure VI sucks and anyone that thinks it makes any job more powerful doesn't understand basic game mechanics.

-

Once again I will reiterate the need for feedback now more then ever. This is time to give opinions in force, and that's means you, the reader should take a gander at the charts and formulas and give an opinion! Don't disappoint us!