Cure Formula Changes

[Aleste]

We're not exactly asking for Cure VI to cure more, it just costs too much and this has been a problem since before the changes were even put up for testing.

I think we need a DEV Beacon for this one.. it was bad before, and now it's even worse...


Although, as far as the rest of it is concerned I think I'm content with Cure4 being more MP efficient than Cure 5 purely because of the enmity associated with it.

[Economizer]

• [dev1094] Cure Spell Adjustments
  At high skill levels, Cure spells now heal more HP than before, while low skill levels see minimal benefit. The degree to which Healing Magic skill affects HP healed varies by spell, with Cure I-IV seeing the most significant adjustments.
  • Cure I-IV: Amount of HP recovered may increase by as much as 1.4 times.
  • Cure V-VI: Minimal adjustments.
    *Curaga I-V and Cura I-III will remain unchanged.

Okay so this update is now live (and hopefully we'll actually discuss what this means now that people have no choice but to test it for themselves).

Once again I'll hold onto my thoughts since we only have a few regulars actually posting theirs here until we get more input on the matter, but I only have negative things to say about the way people treat support roles in general if we don't get an active discussion from more people then the handful that have been posting on the implications of this change now that it is actually going live.

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Anyways, for those who are just showing up thinking "WTF my cures have changed" here is the new formula and the power numbers:




Power numbers.

[Babekeke]

Looks like this just puts even more weight into /SCH for jobs like SMN and BRD if they don't need to cast na spells or haste.
Probably looking at ~200 power from /whm which gives a 400~ cure 4. /SCH should reach closer to 500 power giving a cure 3 for over 300.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Looks like this just puts even more weight into /SCH for jobs like SMN and BRD if they don't need to cast na spells or haste.
Probably looking at ~200 power from /whm which gives a 400~ cure 4. /SCH should reach closer to 500 power giving a cure 3 for over 300.

/SCH only has Cure III, Cure IV even subjob WHM or RDM still heals more.

[Arcon]

/SCH only has Cure III, Cure IV even subjob WHM or RDM still heals more.

But is a lot less MP efficient, for the few places where that still matters.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

But is a lot less MP efficient, for the few places where that still matters.

Perhaps, but if you're getting hit enough that you need to cure yourself Cure III wont save you.

[Babekeke]

Perhaps, but if you're getting hit enough that you need to cure yourself Cure III wont save you.

SMN, BRD or BLM subbing SCH can all cap Cure potency, giving a 450 HP cure 3 for 42 MP. That's a decent chunk of HP for very little MP. Great for a little backup healing to take some stress off the WHM, and give you something to do between BPs or Songs. I don't imagine most BLMs ever going for this, but it's an option.

[Jerbob]

On the subject of Cure V and Cure VI, I think our unique healing magic spells should be more than just enmity-conscious situational (V) and extreme emergency situational (VI). I'd like to see both Cure V and Cure VI get a native bonus to "Converts X% of "Cure" amount to MP" like our empyrean Pantaloons +2, but have the amount relative to healing magic skill.

For Cure V, an example:
Cure amount converted to MP = 0 + (Healing Magic Skill / 150)
A Cure V healing its full potential (eg. 1100) on a target would return an extra 2.8%ish of cure amount to MP, reducing the cost (with +2 pantaloons) to 53MP. Lower healing magic skill would reduce the return, as would healing for less than full potential ("overhealing").

As a result, Cure V's MP cost becomes competitive with IV again, with the added enmity reduction bonus, and Healing Magic Skill has worth for Cure V. This also encourages white mages to use Cure V properly instead of just spamming it without looking at how much healing is actually required.

I haven't used Cure VI since the "update" but it heals significantly less now? I'm not sure what value of Healed >> MP would be required to make VI useful again. Indeed, with IV's new potency VI is even more pointless before even considering absurd MP cost. Something new is required, but I wouldn't want anything really complicated... perhaps have a strong regen as an additional effect based on Afflatus Solace power/Healing Magic skill in tandem with native Cure >> MP effects?

At this stage I'd probably be in favour of removing VI entirely and replacing it with something more creative... a over time healing magic effect that removes one debuff every X seconds based on healing skill? A spell that gives a buff that converts the next enfeebling effect someone recieves into a buff to the attribute related to that status effect's element, duration based on healing skill? I dunno, lots of possibilities.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Cure VI needs something, Cure V doesn't. The fact it has ridiculously low Enmity makes up for the extra MP.

Though I don't believe it should be in the form of MP conservation.

[Economizer]

While I'm not certain that Cure V needs any changes, I'll retort:

Cure VI needs something, Cure V doesn't. The fact it has ridiculously low Enmity makes up for the extra MP.

I've spent the last few days mostly spamming Cure III/IV on things as a White Mage. I've tried a few gear setups but most of them involve me wearing very minimal enmity down gear, and in fact, I cure in a Goading Belt for recast purposes. I think that should sink in for a moment. I wear no more then -15 net enmity in terms of gear, and usually way less, so I'd say I'm not really wearing as much as someone who has what they'd consider a perfect gear set.

Short of people dying, I have not gotten hate once, even when I was spamming Cure III, IV, lower tier Curaga spells or any other amount of spells that should be grabbing hate. There have been cases where I throw in a Flash or two here or there to skill up Divine Magic. Still no hate.

There have been fights were I was lazy (due to the inclusion of large amounts of Refresh) and tossed out a few Cure V's like they are candy, or fights where I've overcured excessively or went to older habits of mostly spamming Cure IV/V rather then III/IV, but for the most part I've been spamming III/IV with not only no penalty, but for great benefit for my MP efficiency.

I think what Cure V has going for it now isn't reduced enmity or a very slightly larger amount cured, but the fact that it is another cure timer to burn through without killing your MP pool to the shear amount that Cure VI does. That's pretty much the benefit now, because it is very hard to get hate with lower tiers of cure in most cases.

All that said, Cure VI is most definitely broken crap.