To Developers: Accession

[Ciecle]

I'm sorry, none of that was ment towards you econ, unless you're saevel. Diaga II was in the .dats is why i said it was there.

I thought SE gave blm something that allows them to close SCs with elemental magic... guess i was only thinking of sch.
and ignoring the fact that you choose to say that most NMs are immune to certain debuffs, because when it gets down to it, most enemies are immune to the good enfeebles...

it's not that blu cant do that with sleeps. but what's the point in doing that... you're just increasing the chance of your sleep being resisted if the battles keep going... Yes you reset the timer on sleep, and yes you deal damage in the process with a stun, but if the mob is a pld, that can be dangerous... Most people tend to forget blu can only have a maximum of 20 spells and still has to wait 1 min after reseting them.

I'm not saying blu is not a powerful job. people can vouch for how well geared my blu is and how well i play the job. I'm trying to say that people need to take a step back and realize that comparing apples to oranges is not a good idea. Rdm !=! Blu and people really need to stop trying to make rdm into what blu is. vice versa. Both jobs excel at what they're good at. Rdm's happens to be mainly enfeebles. not sword swinging, not healing, not dark magic, not elemental magic either. Granted they use to be able to do all of those things very well, it's just annoying to see all the crying and whining about Cure V, regen iv, more enfeebles, more job abilities, and more melee abilities...

[ManaKing]

Both jobs excel at what they're good at. Rdm's happens to be mainly enfeebles.

WRONG. BLU is a job that has some limits to the flexibility it can offer in a single battle, but never lacks for potency on what they have available. (If you pick a bad bunch of spells then your BLU can look pretty bad, but that is user error, not job inadequacy.)

RDM on the other hand has no potency what-so-ever that competes with other jobs. Enfeebles? More than half of our library has been disabled from serious play in this game through straight immunity. What is left over? Dia 3 that you could get a DRG!? to get a better defense down debuff. You can't even use Saboteur to increase the defense down effect of Dia 3. Paralyze and Slow II that always suffer from reduced potency or immunity from real NMs. Blind II that doesn't matter because the accuracy for real NMs will not be affected by it. Poison II's damage was outdated at 75, Saboteur didn't change that because the HP for NMs went up exponentially.

So yeah we have full potency at one thing that SE decided they were going to destroy when they moved past 75. You're right apple and oranges, as in BLU is a good job aka an apple and RDM is an orange aka a broken job. (If you like oranges better than reverse them for your preference.) One of these jobs is blatantly better than the other and BLU doesn't want to admit that it is in a pretty sweet spot because they have to reset spells if they want to change out from their good spells to their other good spells....

not sword swinging, not healing, not dark magic, not elemental magic either. Granted they use to be able to do all of those things very well, it's just annoying to see all the crying and whining about Cure V, regen iv, more enfeebles, more job abilities, and more melee abilities...

You're right RDM has access to around 120 spells, BLU has access to around 150 spells. Since 75 RDM has gotten 20 spells, BLU has gotten 37. It's like SE has taken a vested interested in one of these jobs and left the other one out in the cold.

RDM has access to 21 job traits, BLU has access to 32. Those 21 job traits are distributed into 8 different traits that we just get higher tiers of. BLUs only repeating trait is Clear Mind which goes up to IV on BLU and only up to III on RDM, so realistically BLU has access to 29 unique job traits. On top of that, BLU can choose which job traits they want so they can custom tailor themselves for whatever task is ahead. Furthermore, BLU has access to job traits that belong to a wide variety of jobs, not just mage jobs. SE has no problem putting access those job traits on BLU, but the RDM wants them, they are scorned for wanting things that other people have even though we are described as a jack-of-all-trades job. I guess that means that a BLU must be a Queen-of-all-trades job since they are clearly allowed to get whatever they want from other jobs, while RDM is not.

RDMs are asking for more things all the time because what we are supposed to excel at is broken and everything else we have is not just behind BLU in potency, but everyone. I personally don't want Cure V, but upgrades to melee and nuking would be appreciated, since we don't believe that enfeebling will be fixed anytime soon. Until Enfeebling is fixed or we get upgrades in potency for other things, then RDM will remain at the end of the line, a place BLU is nowhere near.

[Meyi]

RDM have no natural spell that is aoe. Not one. They don't deserve hastega and they certainly don't deserve some AoE job ability that allows them to AoE their spells.

That said I am all for allowing Accession to AoE more white magic spells, but this should be accessible to everyone, not just RDM/SCH. WHM/SCH and SCH/RDM should also be able to AoE Haste, Refresh, and what have you.

Edit: And RDM a joke? Please. RDM used to be the king of solo, and is still able to solo what it used to be able to solo back in the day. Now I understand RDM has had its light taken from it with everyone gaining its powerful spells via subjob, but I think there are better ways than giving RDM access to things it would never have access to (like native AoE spells). It's a good job, it just needs to have its strong points enhanced better.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

RDM have no natural spell that is aoe. Not one. They don't deserve hastega and they certainly don't deserve some AoE job ability that allows them to AoE their spells.

That said I am all for allowing Accession to AoE more white magic spells, but this should be accessible to everyone, not just RDM/SCH. WHM/SCH and SCH/RDM should also be able to AoE Haste, Refresh, and what have you.

Edit: And RDM a joke? Please. RDM used to be the king of solo, and is still able to solo what it used to be able to solo back in the day. Now I understand RDM has had its light taken from it with everyone gaining its powerful spells via subjob, but I think there are better ways than giving RDM access to things it would never have access to (like native AoE spells). It's a good job, it just needs to have its strong points enhanced better.

Yeah, why does a "Supposed Enhancer" deserved AoE enhancing magic...

[saevel]

She/he's just screaming. Pretty much everything she posted was either ad-hominem or factually incorrect. The Diaga II reference alone say they have never actually played RDM now even given it a look.

Most BLU's leveled BLU to get away from RDM, they would absolutely hate the idea of being forced back into a healer / support role. I'm talking fanatical level hate here, you can't reason with that.

BLU gets three medium to high potency cures all on separate timers. The base cure power of M.Fruit and P.Embrace was balanced using 0 healing magic skill, once you add healing magic skill it then surpasses Cure V, heck P.Embrace even has a nice +attack / magic attack bonus tacked on. Unlike RDm who can only do Cure IV -> Cure III -> Cure IV, a BLU can cycle P.Embrace -> M.Fruit -> Cure IV for faster and cheaper healing then a RDM could even dream of. They can go /WHM for haste support if needed or the better /SCH for significantly higher healing magic skill and another form of aoe stoneskin / regen II along with a potent Drain / Aspir. LA/DA does not effect blue magic skill, meaning the BLU can be in DA mode and still get cheap fruits / embraces off. Healing Breeze was amazing at 75, Curaga II is a 120MP spell, Breeze which has the same cure power is only 55MP. It's since got weaker but SE then introduced White Wind which is crushingly powerful. WoP is aoe erasega, it has a 20s recast timer and 36mp cost, BLU gets native FC and haste so that timer can be lower, much lower. No other job in the game can remove status ailments as fast as a BLU.

WW is based on max HP not current HP, meaning a BLU should macro in as much +cure pot and +HP gear as possible for it.

The formula for calculating HP recovered is floor(MaxHP/7)*2.

1500 HP gives 428 base cure power, after some +cure pot you can get 500~ish aoe healing for 145MP, or slightly more expensive then a single Curaga II which is 200~220 with the same +cure pot. Closest comparison is Curaga III at 180MP.

Leave it to a BLU to think 106MP P.Embrace is a "MP whore" compared to WHM's 135MP Cure V. Their so comfortable with ridiculously cheap spells that they never stepped back and saw what every other class had to deal with. Just imagine if the heavy damage BLU spells cost 180~200+ MP each.

This one isn't a fact about the game, so I can't really confirm this as easily, but I would think that this is not what Saevel is implying, but I'd have to check with him first, since I don't want to put words into his mouth.

Mediocre at everything =/= worst at everything. RDM's ability set at 95 is largely the exact same as it was at 75, minor tier ups like Refresh II and the Emp gear making buffs last longer aside, the proposed "support" play style is the same. Haste -> Cure IV -> Paralyze II *RESIST* -> Cure IV -> Cure IV -> Slow II -> Haste -> Dia III and rinse / repeat. Cure IV is no longer enough on it's own, and SE has nerfed enfeebles to mean nearly nothing, other then Dia III. When you combine these two facts, and they are facts as everyone has pretty much stated, RDM really starts to become a dead job. You can try really hard, get the best melee and mage gear possible, macro long complex macros to optimize for those spells, and you'd still not scratch what a AF WHM or BLU could do.

Rather then complaining I've been looking for things to politely request SE to add / modify. They do read these forums, they make notes, and while they may not listen nor have the time to care, occasionally we can get a message through. If we keep putting the word out that we need something more, eventually they'll do ~something~.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

The funniest/saddest thing is: Whether you're a melee enthusiast or prefer the magical side of RDM the biggest fix to both these sides is to kill the Enhancing cycle by giving RDM AoE enhancing capability. In no game should part of a job be decided by the need to cast the same spell on the same people every 2+ minutes.

Doing this would fix a major issue allowing focus on fixing other things such as Enfeebling Magic, Melee Skill etc....

[saevel]

The funniest/saddest thing is: Whether you're a melee enthusiast or prefer the magical side of RDM the biggest fix to both these sides is to kill the Enhancing cycle by giving RDM AoE enhancing capability. In no game should part of a job be decided by the need to cast the same spell on the same people every 2+ minutes.

Doing this would fix a major issue allowing focus on fixing other things such as Enfeebling Magic, Melee Skill etc....

No sh!t, its was getting pretty ridiculous back at 75. Now with full emp gear it's mildly tolerable cycling haste around, really wish I could do more to boost the overall capability of the group. Either through buffing party members or by crippling the targets stats. If SE would create a RDM native version of the ele DoT's (Choke / Burn / ect..), have them based on enhancing magic and with significantly better INT scaling and no DoT effect, then this would greatly serve our purposes.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Elemental_Debuff

At 150INT your only doing -13 stat at 5hp/tick. Doesn't seem to go any higher then that. -13 AGI is -6.5 evasion or +3.25% hit rate ... yeah whatever. Depending on your group you could be raising everyone's crit rate, or not doing a damn thing to it. Also due to their elemental alignments you can't stack -VIT and -AGI. Now if they had ones that did -20/30/40 to the enemy status, then it would rock, even if you could only have one up at a time you could still pick the point to exploit the most.

[saevel]

Here cure calculator.

http://members.shaw.ca/pizza_steve/c...alculator.html

At this you can see a BLU's M.fruit destroying Cure V for efficiency, P.embrace is just M.Fruit +110, it rivals Cure V in sheer potency.

At 95 /WHM gives 144 healing magic skill and /SCH gives 310. At 140 MND 90VIT and 18% cure potency (not terribly difficult to achieve) you get.

226 Wild Carrot at 37MP
238 Cure III at 46MP (44 under LA)
481 Cure IV at 88MP (80 under LA)
607 Magic Fruits at 72MP.
717 P.Embrace at 106MP, +Attack / Magic Attack bonus.

In comparison,
843 Cure V at 135 MP (122 with LA)

Another thing of note is that both M.Fruit and P.Embrace are just Cure V (-200 cure power for MF, -90 for PE), they share in it's soft / hard caps being significantly higher then what is possible with Cure IV / III. Also if / when SE alters the cure formula, this can/will directly boost Blue healing magic.

[Greatguardian]

Here cure calculator.

http://members.shaw.ca/pizza_steve/c...alculator.html

At this you can see a BLU's M.fruit destroying Cure V for efficiency, P.embrace is just M.Fruit +110, it rivals Cure V in sheer potency.

At 95 /WHM gives 144 healing magic skill and /SCH gives 310. At 140 MND 90VIT and 18% cure potency (not terribly difficult to achieve) you get.

226 Wild Carrot at 37MP
238 Cure III at 46MP (44 under LA)
481 Cure IV at 88MP (80 under LA)
607 Magic Fruits at 72MP.
717 P.Embrace at 106MP, +Attack / Magic Attack bonus.

In comparison,
843 Cure V at 135 MP (122 with LA)

Another thing of note is that both M.Fruit and P.Embrace are just Cure V (-200 cure power for MF, -90 for PE), they share in it's soft / hard caps being significantly higher then what is possible with Cure IV / III. Also if / when SE alters the cure formula, this can/will directly boost Blue healing magic.

This is bad math. You're using a BLU's Cure Potency gear on a WHM to get those results. WHM is absolutely not going to be rocking 18% Cure Potency =/.

The correct comparison looks more like this:

BLU w/your stats:
Wild Carrot: 226 HP / 37 MP Ratio = 6.108
Magic Fruit: 607 HP / 72 MP Ratio = 8.43
Pl. Embrace: 717 HP / 106 MP Ratio = 6.76

WHM w/ 150MND 100VIT 400 Healing Skill 50% Cure Pot (not hard outside Abyssea):
Cure2: 147 HP / 22 MP Ratio = 6.68
Cure3: 307 HP / 42 MP Ratio = 7.31
Cure4: 622 HP / 80 MP Ratio = 7.77
Cure5: 1095 HP / 122 MP Ratio = 8.98

This is excluding the 35% Solaceskin bonus each cure receives.

BLU's cures do not rival WHM in either potency or efficiency using your prescribed stats. I don't know jack shit about BLU gear availability, so if they can get more Cure Potency please be sure to adjust your numbers accordingly.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Sadly, one of the best debuffs at the moment for harder Nms is Impact, which is Cloak only.