To Developers: Accession

[Hyrist]

Issues with haste are going to fall by the wayside anyways because anyone /whm or /rdm will be able to cast it.

I don't see anything here that I haven't been saying would happen. Sad to see that some of my ideas for adding on as alternatives haven't made it.

We get no Cure V, but limited cure adjustments and no specific spell to augment curing. (Perhaps the MND effect will make Gain MND worthwhile for it.)

We get both Sword and Dagger WSes, further fueling the hybrid approach to the class as they're both fairly decent WSes. But still we lack in a wider array of gear for those who cannot tote around the absolute best for RDM Meleeing, a role scorned anyways.

And those who have been spouting for more AoE spells finally get told no. And honestly, I've agreed to that for a long time. RDM's functionality should not be limited to another job's function. However, there's not even a peep towards giving RDM more single target buffs or, better still, debuffs that are unique to the class.

All of what people have been asking for in that department could likely be established with better enfeebels anyways, as they're target centric, not player centric. (Which makes debuffs place on the monster effectively alliance-wide buffs, balanced by only being most powerful on difficult monsters which are subject to capped durations, lesser potency, and resist issues.)

We've a pathetically limited array of debuffs for a Debuff Specalist. Especially in the offensive debuffs.
(Hint to the developers: Oil/Imperil, Vit-0, Zombie(on foes), And Mini are all status effects you could still balance for an MMO yet still implement, an that's not touching new debuffs you have in game but do not give us in spell form.)

There's also the standing issue of no direct way to Regard TP moves themselves (rather than slowing or trying to prevent them.) Which needs to be addressed.

I understand you're finally trying to Corral Red Mages into finally playing the image you mean for them, but don't do it just by repeatedly saying 'no' to suggestions. Give us something to go on in the departments you're wanting Red Mage to specialize in: Enfeebles.

Honestly, why haven't we gotten even a hint on what the Devs are thinking in that regard?

[tyrantsyn]

Red mage was designed to be proficient in the ways of enfeebling magic and single-target/self enhancements. Magic spells were split so that red mages focused on single-target magic, while white mages excelled in AoE magic.

In regards to Haste specifically, the stats surrounding the spell were created for a single target in mind, so for balance reasons we have no plans to make it possible to turn it into an AoE spell.

Due to this, we do not have plans of allowing red mage spells to simply be changed into AoE spells.

You know maybe it's just me but I can remember this being address already before. And we were told the same thing at the time. What I'd like to point out here is that this only addresses "haste" and not any of the other Accession~able spell ppl have been talking about. Like our gain line, Refresh II, and Temper "and for some enspell II's."

Now if SE doesn't want to make these spell aoe threw sub job, the question still stands can we get single target version on the gain line, Temper, or even the Enspell II's? It seems a little odd sitting here asking for more utility threw a sub job. Tho it seems to be the fan favorite for most on the job.

The way I see it, single target = greater potency over a spread out version of the spell. This isn't to say there couldn't be a dum down version of a AOE haste spell made. Which would probably land in the hands of WHM's not RDM's. And would basically be a tone down version of the current single targeted version. Like Rukkirii said, the current version is specifically design around single target spell and making that spell aoe/accession would make it unbalanced. That's not to say SE couldn't take the current spell, bump it's status up to tier II and make a weaker version tier I that could be made into a AOE/accession~able spell. The question is would any one really want that? The idea falls into the whole trade off system that most jobs are know for. So I wouldn't count something like this out.

[ManaKing]

Red mage was designed to be proficient in the ways of enfeebling magic and single-target/self enhancements. Magic spells were split so that red mages focused on single-target magic, while white mages excelled in AoE magic.

In regards to Haste specifically, the stats surrounding the spell were created for a single target in mind, so for balance reasons we have no plans to make it possible to turn it into an AoE spell.

Due to this, we do not have plans of allowing red mage spells to simply be changed into AoE spells.

Any chance we'll be on equal footing with the other jobs any time soon as a whole or does your design for RDM also including leaving RDM in the dust?

Because every mage is better than us right now and we aren't a DD and we aren't a better buffer than anyone. Also, we aren't a tank, regardless of how tough we can be and that we have access to shield mastery. Our shield is limited to a Genbu's shield or nothing useful.

The job has major problems, your answer didn't solve any of them. RDMs expect to be taken seriously in these next couple of updates since we clearly weren't in Aby. Some actual transparency into our future would go a long way to start RDMs being able to have actual discussions on things that might be useful.

[ShadowViper]

Love it we are profiecient in the ways of enfeebling but dont get any AOE enfeebling besides poisonga and diaga (which should be divine anyhow). Yet whm whos profiecint in Healing and divine has AOE versions of both healing and divine with blm being profiecent in Elmental has AOE versions of those spells and rumor of an AOE dark spell to come (though they should get natural bioga).

So looking more at whm specifically its now able to do aoe heals, divine and enhancements and people wonder why there is no room for RDM in a group. I dont care if i ever get cure 5 i dont want to be a main healer, i want to be the enfeebler/enhancer SE keeps talking about that can jump into the fray when need be. If we were giving the aoe versions of our enhancing spells and have them self cast and give us the barga spells we would have more of a role in game. Right now what SE has done is turned whm into a main healer, light trigger go to job, and main buffer (with stonegra using solace/curaga, boost spells and barga spells) leaving rdm as just a enfeelber for its main role, but guess what all but the merit spells (should never of been merits) are able to be done by other jobs such as whm.

Looking at BLm it gets 2 very useful AOE spells that are enfeebling based with Sleepga/Breakga, how is that balanced when blm after being able to enfeeble a crowd can now go in and use AOE dmg spells to kill em, least if these spells were RDM main not BLM a RDM can't just simply work down the crowd solo, it would also give the enfeebling aspect role BACK to RDM so if an event needed crowd control you dont go to your nuker you go to your enfeebler (isnt that what we do with brd anyhow but as a non mage).

FFXI is a group based MMO, most things in game require a party, yet what does a RDM have to offer to the group making it unique--- Refresh?? --- guess what 3 other jobs can do this also and all of them do it in an AOE version, all 3 of those stack with any other form of refresh in game while rdms doesnt work with sublimation, XXofValors buffs, and drinks, so how is that balanced. Worried about hastega being unbalanced, again why the same jobs above have similiar buffs, and minus smns hastega from garuda theirs dont get overwritten by slow.

Again make these AOE buffs be aoe centered on the RDM and guess what, now you dont have to sacrifice a WHM to run in to "Buff" a party send in the rdm whos suppose to be buffing parties into demigods anyhow.

Because RDM is lacking any natural unique abilities its heavily reliant on its sub job to fit a role, why topics like this about improving RDM by adjusting other jobs abilties pop up, but this won't change the role for RDM. If the spells were made accessionable then it just means whms now have the AOE version of Haste, LV 99 SCH/RDM will have it leaving rdm with only refresh 2 and en2 spells which aren't all that desired than they were before because of other jobs able to do the AOE version of refresh and not many wanting their own weapon effects to be overwritten, would still leave RDM no real role in a group.

So my call to SE, Keep whm with its aoe version of healing/divine spells (make dia divine again), with BLM having its AOE Elemental and DARK (need to add more aoe dark like drainga/aspirga/bioga) but make all Enfeebling/Enhcaning AOE RDM exclusive spells (need more enfeebling/enhancing spells, but would include existing spells such as pro/shell-ga/barga/sleepga/breakga).

This would give the three starting mages distinct roles as mages and still have room in game for SCH who is would still stay the second best nuker in game, and hopefully with update to regen be a decent replacement for whm if non are available (though i believe sch should get cure 5 to make it the go to job as a back up to whm and to keep SCH the DOT master its becoming give it refresh also).

[Lyandra]

In regards to Haste specifically, the stats surrounding the spell were created for a single target in mind, so for balance reasons we have no plans to make it possible to turn it into an AoE spell.

Due to this, we do not have plans of allowing red mage spells to simply be changed into AoE spells.

When the 80 level cap increase was announced and the rules for Accession+Haste were mentioned, I was glad then that SMN would retain at least one "unique" ability in Hastega. However now I think it would be easier to allow it to be cast as a spell to cut down on maintaining Haste on multiple targets. I think by 99 it should be released as a usable spell, since the actual Hastega spell exists in game and is still cast in party by the Moblin Gurneyman in Oldton Movalpolis. (Since it's AoE, it'd likely go to WHM before RDM however, so I dont think that RDMs would like that decision anyways )

But as far as mechanics and balance go, if Hastega were a learnable spell why not do what they did with BLU Refueling and Animating Wail? Just keep Haste as single-target +15% increase but make Hastega party +10% increase instead. That way players could choose to give faster haste as needed or sacrifice performance for convenience.

[Neisan_Quetz]

10% hastega is effectively useless. Rdm needs fixes but hastega is not going to change anything, especially a gimped version.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

10% hastega is effectively useless. Rdm needs fixes but hastega is not going to change anything, especially a gimped version.

Hastega wont fix any job, it'll just make the tedious part of RDM, WHM and now SCH that much less tedious.

It certainly is not worthy of a gimp, you can keep Haste up on all party members fine. It's just the cycle that's annoying.

RDM was useless as soon as the level cap went past 75, and now SE have basically guaranteed it'll stay that way.

Basically as far as SE are concerned: "RDM will not be getting any buffs, we'll add a few JOKE spells but that's it"

[Froggis]

They will not let RDM die out. All jobs will probably be getting some kind of insane spell or ablity we've always hoped for in group 3 merit form. Perhaps Haste II, though that wouldn't be my preference lol. People shouldn't give up hope on RDM just yet, it will come back, and it will be quite amazing when it does, though it will be about 3 to 6 months from now I imagine.

[FrankReynolds]

Red mage was designed to be proficient in the ways of enfeebling magic and single-target/self enhancements. Magic spells were split so that red mages focused on single-target magic, while white mages excelled in AoE magic.

In regards to Haste specifically, the stats surrounding the spell were created for a single target in mind, so for balance reasons we have no plans to make it possible to turn it into an AoE spell.

Due to this, we do not have plans of allowing red mage spells to simply be changed into AoE spells.

This post is not only inaccurate ( haste is not a balance issue, other spells etc.), but also has a bad tone to it. It's fairly obvious that people are desperate for something to make red mage a good job again.

Instead of popping in and going " No! You will get nothing, and like it.", why not try saying something like "We are not planning on adding this requested feature because we have something in the way of <insert hint about something you have planned for red mage here> planned, and we think you will find it is even better.".

[Hyrist]

Some actual transparency into our future would go a long way to start RDMs being able to have actual discussions on things that might be useful.

I think Red Mages as a community is often divided by the various ideas we would like to see implemented for the jobs, but we can all unite under this statement.

If your idea is to make enfeeblement and single/self target buffers. We want examples, even the roughest of conseptual ideas as how the developers are going to accomplish this. Even asking us pointed questions would be preferable to the near-silence we have gotten in comparison to other jobs.

We realize this job is a hard one to balance. But this difficulty should be encouraging the development team to be more vocal and open with us, not the opposite. Engage us, talk to us. Give us a direction to work with instead of letting the community tear itself apart for a lack of anything solid to work with.