Einherjar / Limbus / Nyzul Isle / Salvage - No More Proc Systems!!

[Arcon]

In ToAU, it was SAM + RDM + COR onry.

I don't think we're referring to the same thing when we say ToAU. Treasures of Aht Urhgan? I frequently used WHM, BLM, SCH, BRD, PLD, WAR, DRG, MNK (any DD really), even NIN, and if people wanted to come on less optimal jobs I always let them, because it was always useful. And that goes for almost every event (Salvage was a bit restricting, but Nyzul, Einherjar, Assaults and even HNMs allowed most jobs). In Abyssea these jobs aren't useful. Don't get me wrong, you can still bring them, but there are just combinations that are a hell of a lot better, and it's solely because of weakness staggering. Because any DD can kill any mob in Abyssea in no time. But here's the thing, NQ mobs die in one WS, most HQ NMs still die in < 3min, farming low tier NMs still < 1min. The only time sink is staggering and farming, and since every job can farm just as well, staggering is the bottleneck. So why come DRG when you can come WAR and have almost all red procs? And having more people (i.e. DRG+WAR) doesn't help either, because fighting itself is the lowest time investment in Abyssea. Who cares if you kill the NM in 40s or in 1min? It's not gonna save you any noticeable amount of time, but instead may require another healer/supporter. Hence the uselessness of almost every job in Abyssea. In ToAU, more people equalled higher killspeed (where it actually mattered, when prolonged fights meant you would die easier), or easier fights. That's not the case in Abyssea, because more (and more diverse) jobs don't add to the overall group value.

Also, you don't need BLU, I never have a BLU in Abyssea, and rarely need MNK, and when I do I usually don't need NIN. Abyssea simply encourages small parties with certain jobs, you can trio almost everything in Abyssea very efficiently (including some Empyrean weapons) with WHM, BLM, WAR and possibly a THF for good measure.

[Babekeke]

What if they actually made just 1 change to salvage, einherjar and nyzul where you could proc mobs like in dyna, and if you did, you are guaranteed 1-2 alexandrite?
If you don't like to proc; don't. You can carry on the same way that you always did.
If you can clear the zone in 30 mins and would prefer to get extra alex; go for the procs!

Adding procs to allow you to get what you always could before is bad. Adding procs to allow you to get over and above what was available before, I'm all for it. Even if you don't care for the procs, you can make your way through the zone as you always did, and occasionally, you might get the procs by accident and get extra alex. Bonus.

[Gaiben]

I think the biggest thing is that these events are FINE THE WAY THEY ARE. The only thing that you really need to change is that they are a bit easy due to the level gap and the rewards are lacking in luster also due to the level gap. The easiest way to bring life back into them is adding more sections to them, not changing their core function. The very differences they have from the proc based newer content is why players will use other jobs here. As was mentioned a few times earlier, just add newer chambers, higher floors, newer mobs/bosses. Have the additions be a greater challenge with more of a reward. But some of these events I would still like to keep them the same.

Getting to floor 100 again but with some stupid tricks would just be stupid. Nyzual is still really fun, and getting that top floor for mythic weapon skill will not go away. Killing Odin for the title and Atma will still be a worthy cause. But I would be glad to have a new reason to jump back into those fun events. Also making mythics realistic would be nice.

[Spiritreaver]

This is true, I was actually thinking that a refinement to the proc'ing system would be in order. As it is right now, you're correct. None of the systems in place are perfect.

This may be a bit scatterbrained, but this is something I was thinking about in terms of improving the proc system as a whole.

Since SE is going to be revamping Nyzul Isle in the near future, I'd imagine Mythic WS's are once again going to be pretty commonplace (not that they were rare to begin with.)

They could make a sort of hybrid system between the Blue proc'ing in abyssea and VW's system.

General Rundown:
You have 2 different ways to proc with weapons, NQ weakness and HQ weakness. The NQ weakness would be a generic WS that most jobs have access too. HQ weakness would be Mythic WS's. Every job has one.

The difference between an NQ and HQ trigger would be the increase in drop rate on desirable loot. This loot still has a reasonable shot of dropping with just TH (which makes the entire system somewhat optional, but still gives incentives for trying to incorporate it into your playstyle/alliance make-up.) But the NQ trigger would increase drop rate significantly, and the HQ trigger would make it near guarenteed.

Keep the whole "time aspect" of blue procing from abyssea intact.
Weapon types that have no Mythic WS at all would be removed from the list entirely.

Example: Let's say... you have Polearm. NQ weakness would be something like Raiden thrust: DRG, SAM, PLD, WAR, etc. have access to. But to trigger the HQ weakness, you have to use the Mythic WS for that weapon type: Drakesbane, a DRG exclusive. This way, even if a DRG is not dealing as much damage as a SAM or WAR (purely hypothetical here...), he compensates by giving out better loot during Piercing time.

Other example: A weapon like Sword, which PLD/BLU/RDM have Mythic WS's for. All 3 would be able to proc HQ weakness. Guarenteed. This way, during Slashing time, if it happens to be sword, the RDM/PLD/BLU have it covered, all the while covering NQ weaknesses for other damage types when it's not Sword or Slashing time.

The way I see it, it means that every job during their specific time has a reason for being present at an event, but if people choose to just bring <insert top DD here> to their runs, those players aren't completely screwed. They can still do NQ procs with other weapon types during times where their HQ proc isn't a possible option.

It's entirely possible that I may be overlooking something that makes this entire idea stupid, this was more of a "top of my head" thing. Just a thought. Either way, it's late. And I'm gettin some sleep.

I like the ideas you are sharing here, but really they should not be added to Nyzul Isle imo.

Nyzul Isle is almost perfect as it is now. All it needs are

* additional uncapped floors that should be accessible only after you have a floor 100 runic key

* the pool of NMs that can appear should be expanded to include NMs added after ToAU

* list of purchasable gear/items that can be bought with tokens should be added

and most important

* unlink Nyzul Isle and Salvage. Make one or the other dependent on tags(and allow tags to refresh in a manner closer to Abyssean traverser stones) and the other based on a re-purchasable KI that sells from a NPC for like 1k like WoE.


That last one because really, after Abyssea, SE shouldn't try and dictate how often an event can be done. As you can literally stay in Abyssea indefinitely until you want to leave. People that want to do Nyzul Isle AND Salvage shouldn't have to pick one or the other anymore.


Again there really doesn't need to be a proc system in Nyzul Isle, my above suggestions would be easy to do and SE could call the event fixed and move on.

[Glamdring]

I like the ideas you are sharing here, but really they should not be added to Nyzul Isle imo.

Nyzul Isle is almost perfect as it is now. All it needs are

* additional uncapped floors that should be accessible only after you have a floor 100 runic key

* the pool of NMs that can appear should be expanded to include NMs added after ToAU

* list of purchasable gear/items that can be bought with tokens should be added

and most important

* unlink Nyzul Isle and Salvage. Make one or the other dependent on tags(and allow tags to refresh in a manner closer to Abyssean traverser stones) and the other based on a re-purchasable KI that sells from a NPC for like 1k like WoE.


That last one because really, after Abyssea, SE shouldn't try and dictate how often an event can be done. As you can literally stay in Abyssea indefinitely until you want to leave. People that want to do Nyzul Isle AND Salvage shouldn't have to pick one or the other anymore.


Again there really doesn't need to be a proc system in Nyzul Isle, my above suggestions would be easy to do and SE could call the event fixed and move on.

I can almost guarantee the entrance requirements will be changed. Every other event they've redone has had entrance requirements eased, positive these would too, especially if the idea is to make mythic easier to obtain.

Expanding NMs? only if you expand floors. Time limit, remember?

I have no issue with requiring Nyzul 100 beat before you enter salvage the 1st time, but otherwise I'm completely on board with you about unlinking them. Unlink the need to burn assault points too, hard enough to find a group doing assaults as it is.

Absolutely on board with adding "goodies" that can be purchased. The stuff that can be purchased now with assault points needs a revamp as well; the gear was decent (not uber, but decent) before the cap increase from 75 but it's irrelevant now, so we need some 90+ stuff.

1 idea, if they really want to increase interest in doing this stuff then making Salvage/Nyzul an alternative path to Voidwatch as a means of Empy upgrading 95>99 would be an option, and a welcome one to those of us who don't care for Voidwatch. Sorry haters, I like options. It's still the obvious place for mythic 95>99 of course.

[Glacont]

I can almost guarantee the entrance requirements will be changed. Every other event they've redone has had entrance requirements eased, positive these would too, especially if the idea is to make mythic easier to obtain.

Expanding NMs? only if you expand floors. Time limit, remember?

I have no issue with requiring Nyzul 100 beat before you enter salvage the 1st time, but otherwise I'm completely on board with you about unlinking them. Unlink the need to burn assault points too, hard enough to find a group doing assaults as it is.

Absolutely on board with adding "goodies" that can be purchased. The stuff that can be purchased now with assault points needs a revamp as well; the gear was decent (not uber, but decent) before the cap increase from 75 but it's irrelevant now, so we need some 90+ stuff.

1 idea, if they really want to increase interest in doing this stuff then making Salvage/Nyzul an alternative path to Voidwatch as a means of Empy upgrading 95>99 would be an option, and a welcome one to those of us who don't care for Voidwatch. Sorry haters, I like options. It's still the obvious place for mythic 95>99 of course.

100% My Vote.

[Glamdring]

Yes because we all remember there was absolutely no job favoritism back then >.>

only if you were too stupid to know how to build a party. A general party could use any combination of DDs, with or without a support role, tank was kind of restricted, but not always necessary, and there were multiple options with healers-which expanded drastically with the use of proper subs, and there were multiple pulling options as well. The new jobs expand the choices to fill those roles (dancer is a viable tank for instance), and increased cure power allows for more flexibility in party building. The gear choices have beefed most jobs to the point that outside Aby (where the new content is being added) their power is such that they can function easily in a standard party (again, beast is the exception, as they can only DD or pull), albeit in slightly different roles, and proper sub choice on the part of players can make up for the preceived deficiencies in other jobs. Example: red mage is fine as a healer outside dynamis if the pt has a dnc or at least 1 DD /dnc, or a Blue mage in it. Back-up ____ has always been a viable element in any build, it simply requires a little thought and planning when you build your party initially. In fact, standard partys were often a revolving door in many of the roles. Believe it or not the game can be successfully played in more ways than "haste the DDs and cure-bomb".

[Spiritreaver]

I can almost guarantee the entrance requirements will be changed. Every other event they've redone has had entrance requirements eased, positive these would too, especially if the idea is to make mythic easier to obtain.

Expanding NMs? only if you expand floors. Time limit, remember?

I have no issue with requiring Nyzul 100 beat before you enter salvage the 1st time, but otherwise I'm completely on board with you about unlinking them. Unlink the need to burn assault points too, hard enough to find a group doing assaults as it is.

Absolutely on board with adding "goodies" that can be purchased. The stuff that can be purchased now with assault points needs a revamp as well; the gear was decent (not uber, but decent) before the cap increase from 75 but it's irrelevant now, so we need some 90+ stuff.

1 idea, if they really want to increase interest in doing this stuff then making Salvage/Nyzul an alternative path to Voidwatch as a means of Empy upgrading 95>99 would be an option, and a welcome one to those of us who don't care for Voidwatch. Sorry haters, I like options. It's still the obvious place for mythic 95>99 of course.

Should have worded that better. I mean expand the pool from which the NMs are drawn from, not now many are loaded per floor.

EX-Chaneque drops Birdbanes, pretty nifty HTH weapon if you know you are gonna be fighting some weak to piercing mobs. As of right now, Chaneque will never pop in a Nyzul Isle run because it was added after ToAU.

All i'm suggesting with that point is to open up the system there so more different NMs have a chance to pop up during a run.

[Unleashhell]

Guys try to stay on topic. Lets not pick each other apart for past things like level 75 party setups and how we used to play. We don't play like that anymore and we need to move forward with what we would like to see in these new events.

[Leonlionheart]

Procs are horrible, and have been horrible since 80 cap.

It's just a sorry excuse of "balance" to include jobs that wouldn't have been included before (in the end in VW, the only jobs that get included that wouldn't be included otherwise are like BLU, SCH, RDM, DRK, and like DRG. PUP is still left out, even DRG, RDM, and SCH can be left out and still cap lights very easily.) It obviously doesn't work in Aby in terms of 'inclusion,' WAR NIN WHM BLM/BRD THF BLU or -------------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>get out