Less than 30 days to WINTER--where are the payment changes? Update, Can we have it?

[RAIST]

I'm not "supporting SE." I'm not bashing them though, either.

What I gave you is an official response from the Support Team. They just didn't post it here. It still applies, however. Don't treat it like it's not the kind of information you were looking for just because I found it somewhere else.

Actually, it kinda sounded like you were making excuses for them not posting anything here. And no, posting it over there does not count as posting it HERE. Not everyone HERE goes over THERE to find out details about THIS game. Or did that point just go right over your head? Let me restate it for you:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi

Those are NOT the same address. As far as the internet goes, that could be the difference of mailing a letter to JP vs. mailing it to the US. Just because you are on the FFXI forums, does NOT mean you are also on the FFXIV forums.

This is an issue specifically as it relates to FFXI, thus we are looking for answers on the FFXI forums. Likewise, that is a response from the FF14 support team, which SE has clearly stated is seperate from the FF11 support team. They do not necessarily communicate with eachother on a regular basis.

[Alhanelem]

Those are NOT the same address.

They don't have to be the same address. IT"S STILL PERTINENT INFORMATION.

Likewise, that is a response from the FF14 support team, which SE has clearly stated is seperate from the FF11 support team.

The people who maintain the Square Enix Account System are a further seperate team. Any changes to it affect all users of it, no matter which game they play. Any information posted by a "Support Team" member on either forum is relevant to everyone. Why it isn't posted on both is beyond me, but again, it's still relevant information.

[RAIST]

They don't have to be the same address. IT"S STILL PERTINENT INFORMATION.

and it still tells us nothing either. We already knew they are working on the changes.

What we don't know is if/when they are going to be implemented. We've waited the 2 month window they told us it would take. That window has just passed. Are we not allowed to ask for an update when no update has been once the alloted time for implementation has passed?

[Alhanelem]

and it still tells us nothing either.

it tells you at least a maximum timeframe for the changes, because XIV patch 1.20 is supposed to be in December.

[RAIST]

it tells you at least a maximum timeframe for the changes, because XIV patch 1.20 is supposed to be in December.

again.. that is only in the scope of FF14.

This is not 14. 14 is still free to play. And will be into next year if I recall right--at least until the end of the year. Right now, a lack of payment options for that game is pretty much a non-issue (outside of testing) until they start actually requiring payment.

This is 11. 11 has paying customers NOW, and could have MORE paying customers--these are their current and potential clients for right NOW and/or the immediate future, not necessarily some month(s) down the line (provided 14 is ready to go live and require payment on time). They made a commitment to those PAYING and known potential paying clients. A paying customer has a right to ask for details when a commitent has not been met.

In my past IT experience, if you set a timeframe for implementation and you miss that implementation, you had better have kept the lines of communication open to your client, or they may be some h3ll to pay when things are not up and ready on time. You try coming in to work one day the day after a major corporation's project is supposed to go live and it isn't and no one has said a word to that client about the delay. And then, ignore their calls for a week and STILL don't have anything to show for it. Can't even say you've been testing it and ran into some snags and you need a few more weeks to debug it. And yes, it's been a week since someone specifically asked about this. In fact, TWO threads were put up on the 14th:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...s-now-mid-Fall
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...ayment-options

And no word from the FF11 Team after 8 days of posts. And how quickly did they respond to a user on the FF14 site? Not only the SAME DAY, but roughly 11.5 hours later....just 8 posts down the line.

One thread on the FF11 forums was active for roughly 8 days, 14 posts total. No word from the FF11 team.
The second thread only had one post with 2 likes--but the point was there were basically 15 posts on the issue over the course of roughly a week and NO RESPONSE ON THE ISSUE. For 8 days, this thread kept popping up to the top of the list, and no response yet.

And here we are again, after that week, trying to get an actual response as to just what we the PAYING clients (and soon to be paying clients)---just where do we stand on this promised changes? We gave them the two months they said it was expected to get to the last line item. We've waited patiently--so much that we went a few weeks past when the 2nd line item was projected to be implemented (early Fall actually ended the week going into Halloween). The actual middle of the season fell around the first week of November, and we technically just started the last third of the roughly 13 week season--4 weeks from Thursday 11/24 is the first day of Winter.

So, please, stop trying to white-knight for them and let THEM give is an official response about THIS GAME--that is FF11, not FF14--the game we ACTUALLY ARE PAYING TO PLAY. Until they do...those of us who are concerned about the issue will continue to ask for an update--as is our RIGHT as a PAYING CLIENT.


***It should also be noted that this conversation has come up on other forums as well that SE monitors. It's mostly from players who have not been able to post here because they are unable/unwilling to pay with the current options and have resorted to voicing their opinions elsewhere. Don't recall if specific threads were started specifically on the issue per se, but it has been touched on in other threads--they just haven't been able to voice their concerns directly here.

So yes, they have had ample opportunity to be made aware the current/potential FF11 playerbase is anxious about the delay of these changes--which just further fuels the need for them to respond officially on the matter DIRECTLY to the FF11 client base. There are actually people waiting for these changes so they can throw their money at SE. It's mind boggling why they can't/won't issue an official statement on the changes.

[Alhanelem]

again.. that is only in the scope of FF14.

This is not 14. 14 is still free to play.

It won't be anymore when this patch comes out. It's not just "in the scope of FFXIV" either. These changes will affect everyone- and you should read the quote more carefully- We've essentially been beta testing their payment system. They know it's a piece of crap. They have to make these changes before FFXIV fees begin or there's going to be an even bigger shiat storm over there than there was here.

Why don't you seem to understand that even though this post was on the FFXIV boards, it still affects all of us here playing FFXI too? Yes, they should also post about it here, and your guess is as good as mine why they haven't. But the information I provided is still relevant to you even though you don't seem to think so. Both games share the same account and payment systems.

So, please, stop trying to white-knight for them

I'm not "white knighting" anybody. I'm simply trying to convey the information you were looking for. Which has been provided to some degree, albeit in a roundabout, difficult-to-find way. (How is that "white-knighting????)

[Kaisha]

Seems they just added it now - http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/pol...ews21172.shtml

[RAIST]

I did read the post, and the context of the questions were in regard to the pending changes to subscription service for FFXIV. It even tells you that in the opening of the story. Perhaps you need to go back and read the blog again.

Yesterday I was invited up to the Square Enix offices to discuss their recent announcement about reinstating subscriptions to Final Fantasy XIV.

This interview was about what is coming in 2.0 for FFXIV--it had nothing to do with what is going on in FFXI. Yoshida merely referenced FFXI because of the similarities between the payment options being offered between the two. In otherwards--they are NOT identical SYSTEMS, just OPTIONS. You can use your Visa to buy something at a website running Tomcat and turn around and use it on a site running in IIS--and be virtually unaware you may be actually using different technologies to process the same payment instrument. You might even be on an IIS hosted page, that gets redirected into Tomcat to process the Java scripts and not be any the wiser.

Likewise, 0n the surface, FFXI and FFXIV payments may seem the same, but underneath they are likely very different. We already know the engines for the game are different. FFXI was originally built around the POL system--FFXIV was not. We know the hardware for at least one platform is vastly different. It is safe to assume there may be differences at the server level as well. It could very well be akin to the difference of runnig ODBC vs JDBC to connect to the databases. The databases themselves may be vastly different--one could be easily managed with simple scripted language, while the other is more constrained by a more binary communication that requires you to compile everything. There could very well be a completely different array of exceptions to consider between each environment. There is a reason why when you setup CC transactions you have to use different code for a Microsoft based app versus a Java app--they simply run differently underneath the hood.

They may well be holding off on releasing changes to FFXI until they are ready to implement them for FFXIV as well--and that is holding them up. For all we know, FFXI could be ready to go. They could be perfectly capable of releasing FFXI's changes now, and FFXIV later. The reverse could be true for the opposite. FFXIV could have been simple to implement because it was built differently from the ground up, whereas with FFXI they've had to deal with outdated software technology and legacy coding and it's not ready for release yet.

The point is---Yoshida was speaking in reference to changes for FFXIV specifically, and not for FFXI. He mentioned briefly about integration with the FFXI payment schema, but that is NOT an integration with the FFXI SYSTEM. FFXI and FFXIV are completely different animals outside of SE AM. The only commonality in technology may very well be when they are integrated to the SE Account Management system. Outside of SE AM they could be using vastly different technologies--they both integrate to that system, and then that system integrates with the payment processors. How each game communicates to the SE AM are likely quite different and have different issues to deal with.

Think of it in the scope of DirectX--nVidia codes to DirectX, ATI codes to DirectX, Microsoft runs DirectX. Game developers code to DirectX without having to worry so much about the differences betweent eh nVidia and ATI technologies. When something is broken for the next-gen nVidia's, it is not necesarily broken for ATI's next gen product. If they both have similar problems, when one fixes the issue for their line--the same fix does not necessarily apply to the other. The IDEA may be the same, but the approach and CODING will likely need to be implemented and compiled differently--even though they may be both addressing the same texture bugs. The ATI team cannot necessarily speak on behalf of the nVidia team's progress in the matter, as they are in different environments and facing different challenges integrating to DirectX. Likewise, FFXI and FFXIV teams are likely facing different challenges integrating to SE AM.

Thus, we come to the TLDR version:

FFXI and FFXIV are likely facing different issues integrating to SE AM, the common medium--and thus are likely facing different setbacks and having different successes. Therefore, you cannot just simply assume a representative specifically from one team is able to speak on behalf of the other team. What you are quoting is people who were speaking specifically on the FFXIV projects and you are assuming that applies to FFXI projects as well.

While the absence of evidence is not necessarily the evidence of absence, you cannot safely assume the success and preparedness of one seperate team is identical to the success and preparedness of a different team that has been faced with different challenges and resources at their disposal. They may very well be at different stages in implementation at the moment. All we can safely say is that FFXIV appears to have reached a state where they are ready to move forward--the same cannot necessarily be said for FFXI until we hear from someone specifically representing the FFXI team.

Edit:
Nice... Kaisha snuck in and posted a link to an update while I was on my soapbox.

At least that addresses line 2 that was suggested would be implemented over a month ago (early Fall). Now how about line 3?

- New recurring payment credit card options [Mid Fall]

[RAIST]

just quoting the moderator post on the same POL announcement for anyone who may be following this thread:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...ysta-(Nov.-24)

[NA] New Option Available for Adding Square Enix Crysta (Nov. 24)
The following has been added as a new option for adding Square Enix Crysta to pay for service fees on your Square Enix account.

- Details of the new option
You can now freely input the desired amount of Crysta you wish to add to your Square Enix account such as 1,344 Crysta and 2,011 Crysta.

*Please note that the minimum charge amount is 500 Crysta and the maximum is 10,000 Crysta.
*You can still add Crysta in increments. (500, 1,000, 2,000, 3,000, 5,000, and 10,000) *You can add Square Enix Crysta by logging into your Square Enix account through the Square Enix Account Management System.

Square Enix Account Management System
https://secure.square-enix.com/

[Vold]

I'm not "white knighting" anybody. I'm simply trying to convey the information you were looking for. Which has been provided to some degree, albeit in a roundabout, difficult-to-find way. (How is that "white-knighting????)

Because you're saying that it's okay that it wasn't posted to FFXI users. Because we can find the information over at the FINAL FANTASY FOURTEEN BOARDS it's okay. And it's not. Therefore, white knighting.

This is why people are fed up with SE communication. FFXIV just intensifies the hard feelings when a population that is a 5th or even less than that of FFXI are treated like first class citizens because their game is newer. Maybe I give Tanaka too much credit. Maybe he is the source of the problem because I do notice that FFXIV team is much more forgiving with communication than when he was in charge. He's always come off as a "leave me alone" personality to me but I stress I've never met him face to face and the job just might be THAT pressing for a man in his position.

That aside, when we the FFXI playerbase has to rely on the FFXIV boards to get updates, there are problems. And when someone outside of SE chooses to dismiss those problems and say, "that's okay" well, I call that in denial. You did your good deed of helping out but you miss the point of the frustration: We ain't getting the communication we should be getting. But I guess late is better than never since it is now on POL, and since you're playing both games then you're "okay" with all of this.