[dev1052] DRK Group 1/Group 2 Merit Point refinements

[Rampage]

I think they should change Muted Soul to inhibit the max hate that we can attain(each merit reduces the max hate we can achieve by 10%). I had originally thought of this as an update for Endark(which would give only 10% maximum hate threshold) but I think it might be better for Muted Soul.

Yeah I mean the idea of muted soul is to control emnity so we can use souleater. So i would like to see it make SE an enmity controlling tool. The cost of draining HP is in there already so it has its drawbacks built in. The idea that SE can help us survive by the "Mob dont look my way" method works IMO.
I just want to be able to use the ability for its full duration, just like every other job gets to use their abilities. If you go crazy and spam WSs with SE on you are going to get hate regardless, so i dont think it would be OP.
And even if you could pull off a WS with SE without ripping hate off the tank would that be so horrible? That a DRK is actually alive at the end of a fight, that be so earthshattering lol. I mean if u do use it with a WS guillotine = 20% of my health for a good DMG WS, resolution will be 25% of my health for pumping up damage. I mean thats a pretty high cost already even if it does have - emnity cap or erase or w/e.

[Urteil]

Yeah I mean the idea of muted soul is to control emnity so we can use souleater. So i would like to see it make SE an enmity controlling tool. The cost of draining HP is in there already so it has its drawbacks built in. The idea that SE can help us survive by the "Mob dont look my way" method works IMO.
I just want to be able to use the ability for its full duration, just like every other job gets to use their abilities. If you go crazy and spam WSs with SE on you are going to get hate regardless, so i dont think it would be OP.
And even if you could pull off a WS with SE without ripping hate off the tank would that be so horrible? That a DRK is actually alive at the end of a fight, that be so earthshattering lol. I mean if u do use it with a WS guillotine = 20% of my health for a good DMG WS, resolution will be 25% of my health for pumping up damage. I mean thats a pretty high cost already even if it does have - emnity cap or erase or w/e.

I can use souleater with any amount of enmity and chances are its a better idea for the DRK to have hate than say the WHM or BRD or whatever.


This whole trend of wanting DRK to be a hateless DD is stupid, if you want that go make an Annihilator and level RNG.


My DRK does fine tanking with Apocalypse and before I got that weapon I could hold hate and swap into PDT sets and switch back to DD once Seigan/Third Eye was back up. I had pretty good survivability assuming I was playing well, and so can you.

If you are worrying about hate shedding on DRK or wanting ways to augment, you are doing it wrong.

[Rezeak]

>> right with muted souls as it is now it doesn't have it use anymore (mainly cause the hate system is broken)

before at 75 souleater pretty much locked hate on DRK till you cancelled or died and muted soul allowed you to use souleater in some safety.

ofc now souleater doesn't really lock hate on you and doesn't take 12% of your hp a swing so it's not as much of a issue so the loss of muted soul use hasn't been a issue for me.

as for what ya said urt "I could hold hate and swap into PDT sets and switch back to DD once Seigan/Third Eye was back up" well instead of that i was in full DD gear w/ hasso up because of muted soul. (back in the day ofc)

o and fyi even w/ muted souls up DRK would still hold hate over a WHM or BRD but not over a NIN MNK PLD WAR SAM

also the other thing i find werid is why are you complaining about people not having hate in souleater because if you are using souleater while you have hate your doing it wrong! at least in a WHMs opion.

[Urteil]

>> right with muted souls as it is now it doesn't have it use anymore (mainly cause the hate system is broken)

before at 75 souleater pretty much locked hate on DRK till you cancelled or died and muted soul allowed you to use souleater in some safety.

ofc now souleater doesn't really lock hate on you and doesn't take 12% of your hp a swing so it's not as much of a issue so the loss of muted soul use hasn't been a issue for me.

as for what ya said urt "I could hold hate and swap into PDT sets and switch back to DD once Seigan/Third Eye was back up" well instead of that i was in full DD gear w/ hasso up because of muted soul. (back in the day ofc)

o and fyi even w/ muted souls up DRK would still hold hate over a WHM or BRD but not over a NIN MNK PLD WAR SAM

Even with muted soul when I was trying it out, if you were geared correctly and swinging and DPS'ing your balls out you would still pull hate from the tank, then be forced to swap into Seigan/Third Eye to not die from the lack of Stalwart Soul, unless your damage was terrible then I could see how hate pulling is not an issue.

Even "back in the day" it hardly did what was advertised and the only way you are in full DD gear with hasso up is vs some weak exp mob, because not putting PDT gear on and switching out of Hasso is going to make you dead vs something 'hard', which is a rookie mistake.

[Rezeak]

Even "back in the day" it hardly did what was advertised and the only way you are in full DD gear with hasso up is vs some weak exp mob, because not putting PDT gear on and switching out of Hasso is going to make you dead vs something 'hard', which is a rookie mistake.

I'm just gonna put this down to you not really understanding enmity -

so -50 enmity = -50% hate generated

meaning basically you'd need to do 200% the dmg you would normally to pull hate.

if you don't see how this used to be useful for SE Guillotine doing 2k DMG and only producing 1k DMG worth of hate
but to put it basically in stuff like einherjar when you have souleater up w/ muted souls you would never pull hate off other DDs(cause you wouldn't do double there dmg (tho it's close :P) meaning souleater was safe

Either way i used to DRK/WAR for einherjar using muted souls and i rarely died (i spammed souleater too :P ) and if being rookie is clearing a t3 einherjar run at 75 as top dd /shrug

OFC now it's different since all you do is cap hate and the last person that hits the mob will have hate basically EXCEPT drk loses out more here since it's spell(if ya even use em) generates Constant enmity which in time can lock hate on you which sucks but mobs don't generally last long enough for that to happen and we hardly use spells anyway ^^.

third eye + dread spike (YOU CAN CANCEL SEIGAN AND REUSE)

[Urteil]

I'm just gonna put this down to you not really understanding enmity -

so -50 enmity = -50% hate generated

meaning basically you'd need to do 200% the dmg you would normally to pull hate.

if you don't see how this used to be useful for SE Guillotine doing 2k DMG and only producing 1k DMG worth of hate
but to put it basically in stuff like einherjar when you have souleater up w/ muted souls you would never pull hate off other DDs(cause you wouldn't do double there dmg (tho it's close :P) meaning souleater was safe

Either way i used to DRK/WAR for einherjar using muted souls and i rarely died (i spammed souleater too :P ) and if being rookie is clearing a t3 einherjar run at 75 as top dd /shrug

OFC now it's different since all you do is cap hate and the last person that hits the mob will have hate basically EXCEPT drk loses out more here since it's spell(if ya even use em) generates Constant enmity which in time can lock hate on you which sucks but mobs don't generally last long enough for that to happen and we hardly use spells anyway ^^.

third eye + dread spike (YOU CAN CANCEL SEIGAN AND REUSE)

My basic point is that if you're worrying about hate enmity on DRK you are doing DRK wrong.

Not an more of ab issue for DRK than say any WAR DRG etc. for a player geared well, and knows how to macro.

[Rampage]

I can use souleater with any amount of enmity and chances are its a better idea for the DRK to have hate than say the WHM or BRD or whatever.


This whole trend of wanting DRK to be a hateless DD is stupid, if you want that go make an Annihilator and level RNG.


My DRK does fine tanking with Apocalypse and before I got that weapon I could hold hate and swap into PDT sets and switch back to DD once Seigan/Third Eye was back up. I had pretty good survivability assuming I was playing well, and so can you.

If you are worrying about hate shedding on DRK or wanting ways to augment, you are doing it wrong.

If you are worrying about shedding hate your doing it wrong? Are you nuts? Of course you do fine tanking WITH APOCALYPSE, if I had apocalypse i wouldnt mind tanking either, but I dont so what I want is to be able to actually DD and have SOME KIND of hate control ability. Obviously this is what Muted Soul was intended for. If you dont want that because you want to tank, guess what? Dont merit muted soul.

ANd dont tell me u did fine before apocalypse, oh yeah i remember when bird parties were the rage,everyone wanted DRKs in their groups . . . right

Please save me the inevitable "go get an apocalypse" comment. We are talking about making adjustments to the job that make sense.
When I do on DRK exactly the same thing I do on Sam I get hate like all melees do on both jobs, the difference is that on Sam I get hit a couple of times and its no big deal (without any special equipment), on DRG i can jump and get the mob to look at someone else, on Drk I will most likely have on last resort which makes hits hurt, and if im using SE im going to be down lots of HP which will make me dead or near dead. Every ability I have has a built in Provoke so i cant use any of them and the rest of them lower my HP or otherwise negatively affect survivability, this is what should be looked at . You obviously dont care about this because you have the survivability your weapon affords you, congrats!

Sure I can /sam for third eye, but then my dread spikes and drains take 100 years to reload so its a give and take. I know I can do stuff to survive, as is, what we are talking about here are IMPROVEMENTS.

[Taint2]

If you are worrying about shedding hate your doing it wrong? Are you nuts? Of course you do fine tanking WITH APOCALYPSE, if I had apocalypse i wouldnt mind tanking either, but I dont so what I want is to be able to actually DD and have SOME KIND of hate control ability. Obviously this is what Muted Soul was intended for. If you dont want that because you want to tank, guess what? Dont merit muted soul.

ANd dont tell me u did fine before apocalypse, oh yeah i remember when bird parties were the rage,everyone wanted DRKs in their groups . . . right

Please save me the inevitable "go get an apocalypse" comment. We are talking about making adjustments to the job that make sense.
When I do on DRK exactly the same thing I do on Sam I get hate like all melees do on both jobs, the difference is that on Sam I get hit a couple of times and its no big deal (without any special equipment), on DRG i can jump and get the mob to look at someone else, on Drk I will most likely have on last resort which makes hits hurt, and if im using SE im going to be down lots of HP which will make me dead or near dead. Every ability I have has a built in Provoke so i cant use any of them and the rest of them lower my HP or otherwise negatively affect survivability, this is what should be looked at . You obviously dont care about this because you have the survivability your weapon affords you, congrats!

Sure I can /sam for third eye, but then my dread spikes and drains take 100 years to reload so its a give and take. I know I can do stuff to survive, as is, what we are talking about here are IMPROVEMENTS.

Sup Apoc helps with Tanking, but I main tanked Pil last night just fine using Cala for GS procs.

Muted Soul is retarded and won't help you at all. Maybe at 75 during Kclub zergs, but now its pointless. Make a good PDT set and keep hate. Third eye is >>>>> dread spikes.

[Rampage]

Sup Apoc helps with Tanking, but I main tanked Pil last night just fine using Cala for GS procs.

Muted Soul is retarded and won't help you at all. Maybe at 75 during Kclub zergs, but now its pointless. Make a good PDT set and keep hate. Third eye is >>>>> dread spikes.

This is exactly my point. But this could be fixed so that people who dont want to tank can still use SE fulltime, as was the original purpose.