[dev1049] New weapon skills

[Arcon]

Wrong. Also, irrelevant to the discussion.

I'd save face like that too if I got called out like how it actually was;

Bolded the part you obviously missed. I'm not trying to save face, because there's nothing to save. I don't have an Almace. I don't have an Ochain. I'm not full timing 5/5 AF3+2. How is that in any way relevant? You're just trying to deflect.

Secondly, I never said Shoha should go. I just said SAM is a good DD. If you don't agree, you're either not a good SAM or you didn't use it in the last few months and just like to troll people. I don't care either way, I'm used to SAM being SE's favorite DD job, it's been like that pretty much since it was released. I'm also used to, mainly because of that fact, a shitload of bandwagon SAM who don't know how to play, making the average SAM pretty bad in comparison. You may not be a bandwagon SAM, you do seem pretty dedicated to it, but that doesn't make you any good. I've seen plenty of people who thought they were kings with their relics and I've destroyed them with my non-relic WAR at 75, just to shut them up. If you suck, you suck. Sucks for you.

[Taint2]

The reason Sam wins is because sam is just damn easier to gear for, and has a lot more access to Store TP than any other DD. Sam requires much more lenient levels of Gear Quality and Player Intelligence to play well, and that's the bulk of its problem.

.

I agree with most of your post, but WAR might be the easiest melee job to gear in the game. A good SAM will have gear coming from every corner of the game.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Basic War, but if you really wanted to pimp it out (assuming you just picked up both) War also has gear coming from several places as well, mainly Sky/Einherjar/Kings/Abyssea/VW I know offhand (N hands is byakko only, can skip Kings and try for legs from Einherjar though; other two is obvious, Ares might make a comeback with Upheavel + Salvage upgrades).

I probably overlooked something for Sam however.

[doctorugh]

So just for clairification, the new sword WS will be good for rocs, elementals,flans,ghosts,mimics,skeletons and slimes;on anything else vorpal(or CDC) will be better (maybe sanguine for that matter)?

Does it go through any natural -PDT% stuff or just deals with damage types?

[Neisan_Quetz]

So just for clairification, the new sword WS will be good for rocs, elementals,flans,ghosts,mimics,skeletons and slimes;on anything else vorpal(or CDC) will be better (maybe sanguine for that matter)?

Seems to be the case. SE said they're not going to remove the attack penalty.

[Prothscar]

What you YOU smoking? Emp. weaponskills are "NOT" the standard... get off your box-cart, your highness...

Look, if you and your peers can't take a week or less to create an easy to make weapon that isn't my problem. Saying that 60% or more of people have an empyrean weapon would not be far from the truth. Your linkshell might not, and that's likely because your linkshell is lazy. The biggest gimplets could complete an empyrean in a respectable timeframe. Your inability to do so still does not exempt Empyrean weaponskills from being compared to the merit weaponskills.

Big ass lie. Huge majority of people does not have an Empyrean.

Secondly, Empyreans isn't what this is about, they were talking about Hexa Strike, so he used comparable WS from other jobs to demonstrate his point. It's not at all related to how good or bad they are in comparison.

Again, please refer to my statement above. The majority of people do in fact have at least one empyrean weapon, and if not an empyrean then a gimpyrean. If it isn't related to how good or bad they are in comparison, perhaps he shouldn't have said how good and bad they are in comparison or perhaps only compared the club weaponskill since that's the only one that has been directly compared to an older weaponskill by a community rep. It's also worth noting that he wasn't comparing the club weaponskill to hexa strike btw, he was saying that SAM has a bunch of great weaponskills compared to other jobs.

So just for clairification, the new sword WS will be good for rocs, elementals,flans,ghosts,mimics,skeletons and slimes;on anything else vorpal(or CDC) will be better (maybe sanguine for that matter)?

Does it go through any natural -PDT% stuff or just deals with damage types?

It functions exactly like Twilight Scythe and thus bypasses all forms of physical resistance and most forms of physical immunity. The problem is, it still won't be close to worthwhile even on those types of monsters. Either they'll be so low of a level that Sanguine Blade would be as effective, (even mid to highish level monsters this would be the case, at least you get some HP back too), or will be so high that the attack penalty on Requiescat would cripple it completely.

It comes down to whether you want to spend 5 of your merit WS slots and 1,000,000 limit points on a WS to farm crystals with or use in few and far between specialized circumstances where it isn't that far ahead of the competition.

[Vold]

I wasn't aware that 300,000 empyreans have been made now. It's more like maybe 10,000 people own them across all servers and have 2 or more each. I know it's easy to look at figures and go, oh, there's 50,000 empyreans out there. 50,000 people must own them. No. You underestimate a person's will to farm shit when they want said shit, and you overestimate other person's ability to jump in a group to farm or 2 box another character. I have 2 right now. I WILL have 4 soon, possibly as many as 6 when it's all said and done with. And I'm one person. Who doesn't go through linkshells to get them. And you, whoever you may happen to be, think empyrean weapons are standard? More common than relics by like a factor of 5 does not equate to "standard"

Magian weapons are still the standard, with ex/ra from NM behind it, and maybe MAYBE Empyreans have AH stuff beat out by now. Good grief I get such kicks watching people try to make this point time and again about Empyreans being standard. A couple people spew that non sense off here and there in their shells and on internet forums and everyone starts to believe it. Reminds me of theory crafting or worse, theory TH. Theory Empyreans, enjoy it while you can. You're just a fad, playa.

[Neisan_Quetz]

If you're too lazy to make at least 1 easy weapon, well, what are you doing?

[Prothscar]

Or it could be that you're just ignorant, "playa". Empyrean weapons are standard. They are thus one of the standards on which to judge other weapons and weaponskills; a casual jog through Port Jeuno or Ru'lude Gardens will turn up more empyreans per capita than your ridiculous estimations.

If they can't find a single other person to make their weapon with, then they have bigger problems than weaponskills to contend with.

[IronPandemonium]

long-winding paragraph

I'm not using my relic as a justification for being any better than what I or any other relic would be, I'm using it as a comparison for empyreans weapons, which anyone more or less - even if they're a casual mccasual - can complete an empyrean steadily in about the time frame I suggested as long as they play smart and use their time wisely.

So really, why are you (and a few others) implying an empyrean is anything other than the standard when people are completing them in the time required back before Abyssea to raise a job to seventy-five (without grinding at it every single day), or in another two instances, get the gil for a Hagun or even a Perdu Voulge with imperial standing points.

Here we are then with weapon skills that clearly blow their <300 combat skill weapon skills out of the water which are clearly the standard when at least 50% of the populous has at least one.

For whatever reason, you're seemingly ignoring their superiority all in favor of trying to make a job (of many) that has needed a step forward recently - to only take a step backward - just because you're walking blind in this era of the game that has non-empyrean melee as something you'd never even consider taking to VWNM, or even any event in general really, simply because the purchasable (or otherwise, non-empyrean/relic/mythic trial) weapon counterparts clearly do not compare to how they used to back at seventy-five and relics being a bare-minimum upgrade from what the other normally considered standard weapon for each job would be at the time.

Back to the point of the thread itself, with that said, honestly, half of these weapon skills don't even need to be the best, they just need to be at least good enough to where non-empyrean melee can actually make use of them, because as it is currently, the ones that are frowned upon currently that people are clearly not happy with don't even beat the weapon skills we've used years upon years ago that not only deal 75-esqe damage still (low tier), but are the clear reason as to why everyone's funneled themselves into jobs like warrior and monk approximately over the last year and a half (but for good reason of course).

Gear standards have certainly been revolutionized over the last little while, so why not weapon skills as well?