Quote Originally Posted by darkhorror View Post
I would love to see that math that puts rampage equal to Ruinator and in what situations. The tests and calculations I have done show that ruinator is much better in nearly all situations.
Assuming both being used while dual wielding;
99 war/nin, galka (because that's what I am and have easiest access to stats for); 97 base STR
99 bst/nin, galka; 89 base STR
Assuming main hand is Astolfo (99 STR trial axe), offhand, for the sake of ease of calculation, will be the same (99 str trial astolfo)
so main and offhand are both:
Dmg 74 Str+11 (delay and atk aren't relevant to the numbers because capped pDIF is assumed, fSTR is also assumed to be capped)

For the war,
Rampage set: +75 str, matching belt and gorget, crit damage +18%, ~25% double attack
Ruinator set: +90 str, matching belt and gorget, ~25% double attack
For the bst,
Rampage set: +75 str, matching belt and gorget, ~10% double attack
Ruinator set: +90 str, matching belt and gorget, ~10% double attack

Rampage: 6 hit ws, 30% STR mod, total fTP: 5.694 (gorgets don't add exactly 0.1 fTP, they add 0.097), Critical hit ws
Ruinator: 5 hit ws, 100% STR mod, total fTP: 5.485, acc varies ws

so WD = 75, fSTR = 16 (going to shorthand this and add it now, 91 damage before WSC), fTP = 2.05 (max randomized pDIF for 1h weapons)

War Ruinator:
(91 + floor((97+90)*0.85)) * 6.582 * 2.05 (fTP is not a typo, 25% DA means an extra hit will be common, though I can't remember whether the whole "fTP spreads to all hits also includes double/triple attack procs. For the sake of the argument, I'll assume it does) = Best Case Scenario (outside of abs max str): Ruinator damage = 3359 (one double attack proc)
Bst Ruinator:
(91 + floor((97+90)*0.85)) * 5.485 * 2.05 = Best Case Scenario (outside of abs max str): Ruinator damage = 2799

War Rampage:
(91 + floor(floor((97+75) * 0.3) * 0.85)) * (1*x + 0.694) * (pDIF) (1*x = number of hits, such that I can easily calculate for a given number of non/critical hits)
No crits: 1838 damage (1 double attack proc)
3/7 crits: ~2536 damage (1 double attack proc, damage will dip depending on which three hits crit)
All crits: ~3333 damage (1 double attack proc)
Bst Rampage:
(91 + floor(floor(89+75) * 0.3) * 0.85)) * (1*x + 0.694) * (pDIF)
No crits: 1564 damage
3/6 crits: ~2280 damage (damage will dip depending on which three hits crit)
All crits: ~2403 damage

Basically, the reason bsts are all reporting awesome returns compared to rampage is that they lack the large natural increase in critical hit damage that war has. I'm a war, not a bst, so when I say the math says they're even, I'm thinking about it from a warrior's perspective, that's probably why you didn't see what I saw.

Regardless, this is a damage potential scenario, not damage in practice, because this doesn't account for variability in randomized pDIF values, accuracy levels, etc. As far as damage potential is concerned, they're effectively the same, but it is interesting that SE said they wanted rampage to be the stronger ws in terms of higher numbers, and ruinator be more consistent, when realistically, ruinator is more on par with high end rampages than average rampages. That, and ruinator is still a lot easier to gear for, making it a far more forgiving ws in terms of lower gear quality players using it.

Basically, if you're a warrior, the worse your gear, the stronger ruinator will be compared to rampage; the better your gear, the more even they get. If you're a bst, ruinator pretty much wins regardless.

Quote Originally Posted by saevel View Post
Well Gekko has an attack bonus which usually auto-caps ratio and being one hit has 95% acc on that first hit. Ruin has neither the attack bonus nor the super-acc of being a one hit WS. Ruin would only be better if your fighting weak mobs without good gear swaps. Which just described most of the games population.
That was my point in using gekko as a reference example.