[dev1049] New weapon skills

[Greatguardian]

It's easy to figure that out after you learn the basic WS properties, though, lol. One leads to the other.

Once fTP and exact WSC are nailed down for these WS, we can math out which atma will do best pretty easily.

[Byrth]

If we accept that the stat mods are 100% at 5/5 for each WS (and they are for each WS that has been rigorously tested), then finding the fTP could be very quick. I'm not up for it tonight, but I can try to do more this weekend at some point.

[Tannlore]

It's easy to figure that out after you learn the basic WS properties, though, lol. One leads to the other.

Once fTP and exact WSC are nailed down for these WS, we can math out which atma will do best pretty easily.

Right cause every WS and atma/atmacite SE's ever implemented has been done so with 100% perfection and efficiency ya? Or every update... like NA players being able to use the new WS and abilities. Part of testing with the atmas is to see if they are working correctly with the desired WS: It is a test server after all. Things might not be working correctly (See comment about bad/missing .dat files for WS and ability names) and I'd like to have it found it before it comes live and we find out after the fact and risk not getting it fixed for weeks/months/ever..

I want to see practical numbers from testing. Not partial testing and then theory-craft after the fact cause "I know how it'll pretty much go". Assumption is the mother of all mess-ups.

[SpankWustler]

Right cause every WS and atma/atmacite SE's ever implemented has been done so with 100% perfection and efficiency ya? Or every update... like NA players being able to use the new WS and abilities. Part of testing with the atmas is to see if they are working correctly with the desired WS: It is a test server after all. Things might not be working correctly (See comment about bad/missing .dat files for WS and ability names) and I'd like to have it found it before it comes live and we find out after the fact and risk not getting it fixed for weeks/months/ever..

I want to see practical numbers from testing. Not partial testing and then theory-craft after the fact cause "I know how it'll pretty much go". Assumption is the mother of all mess-ups.

If you don't know how something should work, there's no way to test if it is working properly. Without knowing basic things about a weaponskill such as the fTP and modifiers, it is impossible to tell if anything is actually having the proper effect.

All you can determine is "dis suks" or "i liek dis", which while useful information for an individual, is not the most objectively useful information.

[Tannlore]

If you don't know how something should work, there's no way to test if it is working properly. Without knowing basic things about a weaponskill such as the fTP and modifiers, it is impossible to tell if anything is actually having the proper effect.

All you can determine is "dis suks" or "i liek dis", which while useful information for an individual, is not the most objectively useful information.

Here's an example of how you can instantly tell if something isn't working in my example:

Soulshatter has an int modifier.
You go into abyssea, get visitant status.. use the ws (no boosts of any kind) record damage
Now you put on all the int boosting atmas you have... use the ws record damage. (keeping all set/tp% etc. the same as your first data sampling)

You find the damage didn't increase at all... there's a problem!

[Motenten]

Which will tell you if there's something wrong with the atma (certainly good to find out), but otherwise won't tell you anything you wouldn't have found out from testing for WSC.

[Tannlore]

Which will tell you if there's something wrong with the atma (certainly good to find out), but otherwise won't tell you anything you wouldn't have found out from testing for WSC.

Except a bigger sampling size for not having the atmas applied (arguably tainted data). The problem may also rest with the WS code itself rather than the atma (Which indecently it's working fine on test btw). Which is part of the purpose of testing the WS in all areas. If the atma wasn't applying, just found out! imagine if it wasn't the only ws that was effected too.

I'm not, nor have I said this is the only way to test. I'm saying that testing one way and saying, "Alright I'll base everything else off this" is good either. You have a propsed work-up for your fTP and wsc after testing outside on bottom of the barrel mobs with the right set up. Good! now go test it out in these areas too.

[FrankReynolds]

yur not gittin et.

[Alhanelem]

Here's an example of how you can instantly tell if something isn't working in my example:

Soulshatter has an int modifier.
You go into abyssea, get visitant status.. use the ws (no boosts of any kind) record damage
Now you put on all the int boosting atmas you have... use the ws record damage. (keeping all set/tp% etc. the same as your first data sampling)

You find the damage didn't increase at all... there's a problem!

Now hang on... are you just making an example here? Or is the stat modifier for Shattersoul not working?

[Afania]

This isn't "real life" and shouldn't be a mirror of it.

We have a job system where you can change your abilities at a moment's notice. This isn't how real life works either.

Not much different. If I pick up a pencil, I can become an artist and draw stuff, if I go sit in front of a piano, I can become a pianoist as well. But I'm not going to draw better or play better instrument than professionals, the ones who spend their entire life doing it.

MMORPG is based on community, so it wouldn't be too far off from rl either. Most of the MMORPG I played, although it's locked at one class, you get to choose different skill set/talent to master as well, it's same concept. You can play 20 jobs, but eventually only a few will stand out. You're not gonna cap all of them.

Even picking up Relic, Empyrean, and Mythic weapons - which very much so lock you down to your choice unless you can muster the considerable resources to get another - are just items. You can still get another one if you pay the cost though.

Sure, except ppl nowaday have empy for every job, ever since dyna update BST can solo a relic in 4 months, 2 months with a mule, pretty soon everyone will have relic for every job as well. When other ppl has same gear as you do, you won't stand out.

You want to make your job stand out? Play better at it.

Play better at what? Some job does have more complexity than others. But quite a lot of job is nothing more than pop JA then WS, swap gears for x situation and y situation. There are really nothing else to do research and most of the players that bother to care about their job can catch up in terms of playing skill by watching/doing research and they know what to do easily. The skill required in FFXI to play a job nicely isn't half as hard as playing piano to professional level. Someone may spend their entire life practicing playing piano and become a master and create new value for this instrument, you don't need to spend entire life to play FFXI to learn a job, this game is nothing but a bunch of codes, and many most effective ways to play it(which are mostly done by math) are already discussed on the forums/being discovered.

Gear is widely different, and even so there is no gear selection choice that comes close to this merit choice. Not even remotely close.

It's exactly the opposite, many add-on gears provide bigger boost to their respective jobs, while new merit WS are mostly not game breaking. Most of the merit WS are only on par, or subpar to empy/relic WS unless SE change it after next update. Even if they're on par with empy/relic WS the aftermath from empyrean weapon can easily catch up. You won't be gimp without merit WS at all, you can still go grind an empy, spam empy WS and keep ODD up, and still able to perform decently. You're able to pick 3 merit WS, even if you have 20 job leveled, you can still pick better merit WSs and do empy for those without merit WS. From what I've heard Katana/Scythe/h2h aren't so good, rest are replaceable with relic/empy WS for sure, you're not sacrificing too much performance of your jobs by limiting to 3.