[dev1049] New weapon skills

[Serj]

Stuff

Please stop pretending you know how this game works. It's extremely clear you don't.

[Ravenmore]

Please stop pretending you know how this game works. It's extremely clear you don't.

Please stop trying so hard to sound elite. Outside of abyssea sam has always been the hardest to mess up DD with the easiest to understad WSs, IE throw ACC out the window and stck as much str on more the better no matter the level of the mob you fighting.

And the fact that Sam gets a WS for just merits that you can get in 4 hours thats better then Emp./relic is insulting.

[Tiberius]

220 > 357

Only in Vana'diel...

[Prothscar]

What am I looking at? You could have just stopped at WAR, where you didn't even list the WS that matters:

Ukko's Fury.

They aren't all vicious, a select few are absurdly powerful, anything besides those are powerful but not quite as or situationally useful assets to have. Victory Smite and Ukko's Fury are the only two weaponskills that I would put into the first category.

If you don't think Empyrean weaponskills are standard for DDs that are worth a grain of salt, then I don't know what to tell you.



Also would like to note that Ascetic's Fury is pretty baller with Impetus up.

[Theytak]

Please stop pretending you know how this game works. It's extremely clear you don't.

Please elaborate on your assertion, or kindly withdraw it.

What am I looking at? You could have just stopped at WAR, where you didn't even list the WS that matters:

Ukko's Fury.


If you don't think Empyrean weaponskills are standard for DDs that are worth a grain of salt, then I don't know what to tell you.

I didn't say that. I said empy WS aren't the standard for most players since most players don't have them. Doesn't matter how "easy" they are to get now, because the bulk of the playerbase 1) is to lazy to bother making them, 2) doesn't have the ability accomplish getting one even with abyssea godmode playstyle or 3) is waiting until 99 before deciding whether to put in the effort.

[Serj]

Please elaborate on your assertion, or kindly withdraw it.

Well, it seemed you had the assumption that Fudo/Kaiten have an attack bonus, which they do not. You're also under the assumption that they're extremely powerful ws, which compared to strong ws on just about every other DD job, they are not.

Shoha is something that's extremely needed for sam in the current state of the ws for the current state of sam and the game. Nerfing it is straight up making sam an inferior DD by not giving them a relevant ws.

You also think Sonic Drive is a better ws than Drakesbane, which will never be the case. And you also think Stardiver is a bad ws when it really isn't that bad.

Greataxe is ALWAYS superior to single axes and you should almost always be using RR (because apparently Ukko's is hard to get).


tl;dr You're entire post is extremely flawed. And above everything, you missed the point of who you quoted. If you still don't get the point of Iron's post, it's that sam isn't a good DD compared to war and other options on anything relevant in the game and you're asking for the thing that's going to help fix that to be nerfed.

[Theytak]

Well, it seemed you had the assumption that Fudo/Kaiten have an attack bonus, which they do not. You're also under the assumption that they're extremely powerful ws, which compared to strong ws on just about every other DD job, they are not.

I never said that Fudo/Kaiten get an attack bonus. And are you comparing these ws inside or outside of lolabyssea?

Shoha is something that's extremely needed for sam in the current state of the ws for the current state of sam and the game. Nerfing it is straight up making sam an inferior DD by not giving them a relevant ws.

....wut? Are you seriously trying to say that sam isn't one of the most powerful jobs in the game right now? How is Shoha something sam NEEDED? That's like saying Cors NEED a full sized cannon to shoot with because they're pirates.

You also think Sonic Drive is a better ws than Drakesbane, which will never be the case. And you also think Stardiver is a bad ws when it really isn't that bad.

I NEVER said it was better. I put a question mark by it because I know it was a decent~strong ws when it was released, but like I said, I never read anything about drg, so I have no idea.

Greataxe is ALWAYS superior to single axes and you should almost always be using RR (because apparently Ukko's is hard to get).

While I completely agree with this sentiment (and didn't say, or even imply otherwise), I would ask you that you tell that to every war that owns a farsha. No seriously, tell them, because seeing a war with a farsha makes me cringe.

tl;dr You're entire post is extremely flawed. And above everything, you missed the point of who you quoted. If you still don't get the point of Iron's post, it's that sam isn't a good DD compared to war and other options on anything relevant in the game and you're asking for the thing that's going to help fix that to be nerfed.

wtf is with people and their inability to read and comprehend? SUPERGEARUKONWAR applies to the top 5~10% of the players, and requires a fairly decent amount of work and understanding of the job to pull off. Prior to achieving that level of play, sam wins almost every time.

Perle War vs Perle Sam: Sam wi... no, nvm, They're both wearing perle, no body wins in that situation.
Step-above-perle-AH War vs Step-above-perle-AH Sam: Sam wins
Decently geared War vs Decently Geared Sam: Sam wins
Moderately well geared War vs Moderately well geared Sam: Sam wins
Well geared War vs Well geared Sam: War can finally compete with Sam, depending on the individual player.
Top of the Line War vs Top of the Line Sam: War wins

The reason Sam wins is because sam is just damn easier to gear for, and has a lot more access to Store TP than any other DD. Sam requires much more lenient levels of Gear Quality and Player Intelligence to play well, and that's the bulk of its problem.

I don't care if SUPERGODMOADSAM can't beat SUPERGODMOADWAR, because the chances of me ever being in a party with them are pretty much nil. I do, however, care about the fact that since I will never achieve SUPERGODMOAD status in terms of gear, no matter how well I gear myself, I'll always get shown up by some Sam who doesn't understand anything about the game an just spams his crap, due entirely to having a heavy advantage in base work required to do good damage.

I don't have a problem getting beaten in a parse by someone who's done more work on their character, or even someone who's put in as much work as I have. I do have a problem with some random idiot being able to slap on any old thing and suddenly be able to keep up with me, without putting in 1/10 the effort.

Also, Shoha's totally broken compared to the other merit ws, and you seriously can't deny that. Talk about missing the point though. My whole point was that, if SE wanted to nerf one of the new WS, they should nerf one that's amazing, rather than nerfing the ones that are already horribad. It's kind of like kicking a dog. If there was no way to avoid it happening, would you rather watch someone kick a healthy dog that can fend for itself, or a sick puppy that can barely stand? Also, come on. They're never gonna nerf sam, this is Samurai Fantasy XI.

[Taint2]

The reason Sam wins is because sam is just damn easier to gear for, and has a lot more access to Store TP than any other DD. Sam requires much more lenient levels of Gear Quality and Player Intelligence to play well, and that's the bulk of its problem.

.

I agree with most of your post, but WAR might be the easiest melee job to gear in the game. A good SAM will have gear coming from every corner of the game.

[Prothscar]

Being lazy does not provide grounds to exempt Empyrean weaponskills from your listings. They are the superior weaponskills in most or every situation, there's no getting around that. Many to most players do in fact have at least one Empyrean weapon, the lazy minority is not a model to work an entire argument around.

Empyrean weaponskills are the standard.

[Theytak]

Being lazy does not provide grounds to exempt Empyrean weaponskills from your listings. They are the superior weaponskills in most or every situation, there's no getting around that. Many to most players do in fact have at least one Empyrean weapon, the lazy minority is not a model to work an entire argument around.

Empyrean weaponskills are the standard.

If you would actually read what I said, rather than just skimming and going "NO EMPY? U RONG U FAIL",

I threw out empies because all of their empies are vicious WS (except lolquietus and lolcamlann'storment), and relic because all of the relic ws are more utility-for-aftermath ws than actual damage, except for Kaiten which has always been stronger than YGK

when comparing things, it's fairly standard procedure to drop something that is static across the board. The fact that drks get torcleaver and drgs still use drakesbane over camlann's (as far as I know, anyway, I don't read much about drgs), and that Ukko/Smite/Fudo/Torc are all pretty much in the same category of "holyshitpowerful" means that I shouldn't need to include them in a comparison, they should just be assumed. Forgive me for hoping the people reading my post might actually use their brain...

Additionally, I didn't base my argument around "the lazy minority" I based it around the majority of the player base that don't own an empy weapon for every job they can play.