[dev1049] New weapon skills

[Olor]

seriously?



#facepalm

[Amador]

All of this nonsense about thinking like the dev team or not is simply that. Nonsense.

They want us to test and evaluate their product the answer is: No, your current idea and direction this REALLY COOL PRESENTATION, is starting to suck. Therefore we do not like your product, please revise your mistake.

Please do not gimp the Club WS, or any other WS for that matter. Please focus on MAKING THEM BETTER SO THAT WE CAN USE THEM <--- This. Auto-Translate Can I have It?

I mean really devs, messengers, random moogles. Why can't you simply send these ideas in a nice little Microsoft Outlook message that says: Guys, the community really hates this. Can you reevaluate? We need something to make them not rage right now.

What you did was you showed us a really cool product, you made us think wow that'll be hot and amazing. We "tested" it, down to a mathematical level and found that they suck. BUT WE HAVE ASKED YOU TO MAKE IT BETTER BECAUSE WE LIKE IT.

Your response: No we need to make it weaker! Think of poor Hexa Strike! <-- Really sit down and evaluate what you're doing here. It's really not right. You are wrong. Please fix it, not break it further to the point where your next year census says no one merited that WS.

We want to like your product, help us like it more. So you can have our Clink-Clink.

[Vold]

I'm very disappointed about the club WS nerf. I was hearing such great feedback that I already started to regear my warrior for a perma club set up, and I was considering doing the same for my THF NIN SAM DRK BRD BST and RNG afterwards.

[Fredjan]

I suppose Realmrazer'll end up being an answer to people that wanted Hexa Strike though. I was looking forward to a Hexa Strike upgrade myself, but oh well.

[Unleashhell]

I think the devs got hit in the head with that big ass star from the Magian Moogle too many times....

[Kalilla]

I remember starting this game when it came out for NA and trying to figure out what job I wanted to be. I tried Warrior, it seemed easy enough to get to 30 so I did. I later tried other jobs after reaching 30 on WAR until I found WHM.

WHM was great, very easy to get a party and was quite fun for me. I didn't love WHM until a party in Crawler's Nest. Why there? Well, my party was grinding off of crawlers and lizards for a few hours. Then this WHM came up and used Hexa Strike in front of our group and I stopped what I was doing and was awestruck.

I never thought the same way about WHM ever again, and other job possibilities instantly went away. I wanted that WS, and worked hard to get it (as I of course wasn't skilling up club at all). When I finally was able to use it, everything changed. I no longer was interested in a mage WHM anymore, melee was where the fun was at for me. I didn't care about other melee jobs, of course they are going to be good at melee. WHM was something different, a challenge in itself to kick some butt.

I won't ever forget how I felt seeing that taru use hexa and finally getting the message that said I had access to hexa strike. As great as those memories are Square Enix, that was eight years ago. There has not been a WS since then that has overcome Hexa. The next WS after that that WHM's started using a lot was Mystic Boon... 4-5 years ago. Yea, it is just to replenish MP but it changed WHM melee. Even with MB there has not been a Damage ws that has replaced Hexa since, and this isn't only for WHM. There are many jobs that have always used the same WS's for years and years and years!

We all crave for something new to replace these WS's that we have grown bored of, but understandably there wasn't room during the level 75 cap. With the level cap rise gave plenty of room and amazing hope that there would be weapon skills to replace these that are great, but we have grown bored with.

SE you have essentially failed on this. You made these WS's and promised us that we would look forward to them. You gave us power, even WHM, and took it away from us. I was concerned myself that this WS would be given to other jobs and maybe other jobs would be more powerful than WHM ever could be with a club. That didn't matter to me, as always I was never concerned about what other jobs did in dmg. That isn't why WHM's even melee to begin with. So what if a PLD will be able to beat WHM in dmg now, I don't care! If I wanted to be a PLD and melee I would be, but I love WHM.

You essentially teased us and took something we have wished for 8 years away from us. I'm beyond disappointed, I have nothing else to look forward to meriting in this update. I play DNC sometimes, but I won't be focusing merits into dagger just like I'm no longer focusing on club now. I'll get the WS in time, but this just crushed me hard.

To me this is like you giving us Afflatus Solace with Orison Bliaud +2 to give stoneskin to party members then changing it to regen because it's too powerful.

[Theytak]

Camate, Bayohne, please be honest with us. Are the devs actually listening to anything we're saying, or are they just smiling at our feedback, appreciating that we're giving it, and then tossing it in the trash to do something else entirely because the players can't possibly know more about their game and how it's balanced than they do?

Because the players are a lot more well informed about how poorly balanced this game is, and thus far, the devs are only making it worse. Tell them that if they feel any of the new WS need to be weakened, the only acceptable answer is Tachi: Shoha, because it's stronger than the 5~6 other incredibly powerful great katana ws (Yukikaze, Gekko, Kasha, Kaiten, Fudo, and arguably Rana due to SC properties) that completely dominate damage competition when compared to the other 13 weapons' 1~2 powerful WS.

I'm going to go make an in depth weapon skill strength chart using the universal language of math to explain exactly why the devs have yet to do anything correctly with these WS, if their goal is to restore/preserve what little balance is left.

[IronPandemonium]

Tell them that if they feel any of the new WS need to be weakened, the only acceptable answer is Tachi: Shoha, because it's stronger than the 5~6 other incredibly powerful great katana ws (Yukikaze, Gekko, Kasha, Kaiten, Fudo, and arguably Rana due to SC properties) that completely dominate damage competition when compared to the other 13 weapons' 1~2 powerful WS.

You're an idiot if you're under the impression any of those six weapon skills hold any relevance in this day and age.

While Shoha and Last Stand clearly stand ahead of the rest of the weapon skills now (with Exenterator, Apex Arrow, Shijin Spiral and I think Resolution to a lesser extent after the latest adjustment to it), there's no need to downgrade them simply because they hold relevance.

Boost the other weapon skills so that they too become worthwhile instead of just a mere 1,000,000* limit point sink for a fancy animation you'll use once every two months to remind yourself of how you wish the new animations were being put to use instead of collecting dust, because they are literally just that awful currently.

*Forgot a zero since my mind's subtly trying to trick me into being optimistic.

[Theytak]

You're an idiot if you're under the impression any of those six weapon skills hold any relevance in this day and age.

While Shoha and Last Stand clearly stand ahead of the rest of the weapon skills now (with Exenterator, Apex Arrow, Shijin Spiral and I think Resolution to a lesser extent after the latest adjustment to it), there's no need to downgrade them simply because they hold relevance.

Boost the other weapon skills so that they too become worthwhile instead of just a mere 1,000,000* limit point sink for a fancy animation you'll use once every two months to remind yourself of how you wish the new animations were being put to use instead of collecting dust, because they are literally just that awful currently.

*Forgot a zero since my mind's subtly trying to trick me into being optimistic.

....are you trying to tell me that no sam uses any of the WS I listed? Not even Kaiten or Fudo? and given that most sams don't own Amano/masa, Gekko and Kasha would still be their go-to WS. Or are you using the "Abyssea = Crit ws only" line of thought, because we've already established a LONG time ago that Abyssea is done, and not to expect more content like it.

Or are you trying to tell me that the three ws with the highest WSC in the game (prior to merit ws), huge attack and accuracy boosts, and strong fTP, are some how not as powerful now as they were at 75? Or the incredibly powerful Kaiten and Fudo that have had sams creaming themselves for years now are some how suddenly not incredibly powerful?

What in the world are you smoking?

Also, ruinator pretty much destroys every other axe WS outside of Primal Rend/Cloudsplitter for stuff that resists physical damage/is extra weak to magic damage, and shattersoul finally gave staff a physical WS that isn't awful (lookin at you, retribution). Realmrazer also gave non-whms a great club WS that didn't require the awkward gearsets and moderate amount of luck that true strike requires to be solid. Hell, even nerfed it'll still do that... I hope...

The point I was trying to make with the sam WS was that sam has 5 incredibly strong WS that are just as good against low def EXP trash as they are against high def HNMs, and they're STRONG against high def HNMs. If you ignore Relic/Empy WS as they're NOT the standard for melee; Compare the heavy DDs (War, Mnk, Drk, Drg, Sam). Yes I realize other jobs are "DDs" as well, but these five are the balls-to-the-wall DDONRY jobs that focus (almost) entirely on physical damage.

War:
WS vs Low Def: 3 (Raging Rush, Fell Cleave, Rampage)
WS vs High Def: 1 (Fell Cleave (basically took steel cyclone's spot))
WS that are strong vs Both: 1 (Fell Cleave)
Merit WS: Upheavel is meh, Ruinator beats Rampage and is ok vs High Def, but you would be better off using gaxe vs High def typically

Mnk:
WS vs Low Def: 1 (Asuran Fists (Ascetic's Fury is garbage outside of abyssea, Tornado Kick and Dragon Kick need footwork to be competitive, and footwork murders dps))
WS vs High Def: 1 (Howling Fist)
WS that are strong vs Both: none
Merit WS: Shijin Spiral is competitive with/stronger than Asuran vs Low Def, and soundly trounces Howling Fist vs High Def, giving non vere mnks access to their first WS that is strong vs both

Drk:
WS vs Low Def: 2 (Guillotine, Insurgency)
WS vs High Def: 1 (Spinning Slash)
WS that are strong vs Both: none
Merit WS: Resolution gives great sword the ability to be used in either situation, but entropy is just another guillotine clone that's primarily for low def/utility.

Drg:
WS vs Low Def: 2-3 (Penta Thrust, Drakesbane, Sonic Thrust?)
WS vs High Def: 1-2 (Wheeling Thrust, Sonic Thrust?)
WS that are strong vs Both: 1? (Sonic Thrust)
Merit WS: Stardiver is horrible

Sam:
WS vs Low Def: 3 (Yukikaze, Gekko, Kasha)
WS vs High Def: 3 (Yukikaze, Gekko, Kasha)
WS that are strong vs Both: 3 (Yukikaze, Gekko, Kasha)
Merit WS: Tachi: Shoha is basically YGK put together, and is absurdly strong. Sam doesn't have any "situational" ws aside from using rana to open darkness for gekko.

I threw out empies because all of their empies are vicious WS (except lolquietus and lolcamlann'storment), and relic because all of the relic ws are more utility-for-aftermath ws than actual damage, except for Kaiten which has always been stronger than YGK

[Nightfyre]

missing the point

To put it succinctly: WAR/SAM.