[dev1049] New weapon skills

[Dfoley]

Sigh the reason he said gkt/scythe/polearm is because they dont crit. So their damage caps a lot lower then their criting counter parts.

Who said it had to be a freebie? These could be quests that require 100 heavy metal plates and 2000 wsp to unlock, in which case I am fine with them being more powerful then empy ws since that is already more work.

That said:

• Give each job a job specific one (aka h2h has 1 for pup and 1 for mnk)
• Make them quested and not freebie
• Make the quest on par with nyzul where the farther you progress the less wsp you need to unlock
• Make them weapon independent, so we dont have to equip a specific weapon to use it
• Use regular wsc properties. DD dont want to load up on vit for a ws, vit is fine for a paladin, but not a monk, pup, war, sam etc.
• They should be stronger then the evel 71 ws and the level 80 freebie for sure. I would prefer on par with at least empy ws (with no after math obviouslly)

EG
PUP - 6 Hit ws, chance to crit/dmg depends on automaton hp %, where high hp = good, WSC = dex
MNK - 7 hit ws, chance to crit/dmg depends on tp
DRk - 4 hit ws, chance to crit/dmg depends on hp% where you need low hp to deal high dmg/crit, wsc = int!....jk ...= str


just examples of my suggestions

[uptempo]

Yeah im of the mind set that the 99 ws should outperform all the other weapon skills we got on the way up no way a low level ws guillotine or raging rush should out perform whatever we get at 99.

[brayen]

@ Dfoley

that sounds awful, why make every WS crit? The last thing they need to do is turn an already old game even more stale by making all jobs the same. the reason he mentions GK is for no reason, the empy GK WS is a good ws. empy scythe polearm and axe are the only ones that lack anything (due to mods, ftp value and low cratio bonus when they are suppose to ignore def). If anything they should be mindful of new WS and realize the value of these other aspects (cratio, ftp, mods, etc) instead of making everything the same, gives everyone even more reason to stay war with that everything crit mentality.

[Dfoley]

@ Dfoley

that sounds awful, why make every WS crit? The last thing they need to do is turn an already old game even more stale by making all jobs the same. the reason he mentions GK is for no reason, the empy GK WS is a good ws. empy scythe polearm and axe are the only ones that lack anything (due to mods, ftp value and low cratio bonus when they are suppose to ignore def). If anything they should be mindful of new WS and realize the value of these other aspects (cratio, ftp, mods, etc) instead of making everything the same, gives everyone even more reason to stay war with that everything crit mentality.

That is your oppinion obviouslly.
GK weapon skill for the empy weapon is fine for outside of abyssea, you are correct. However, it is just that. 'Fine', not awesome, fantastic,or stupid good. It was just a linear step up from what SAM had been getting before, and it wasn't even a big linear step up because it was barelly better then current ws. While (most) other jobs got rediculously stupid nice ws. MNK WAR and NIN as good examples.
The only good thing about the GK ws was the skill chain properties.

The problem with the rest of your statement is you really dont understand those FTP cratio mod etc. Yes they play a role, but if a ws can crit its damage potential changes drastically.

EG to balance a ws against Victory smite:
4 hits (no chance of crit)
You would need ftp mods of over 3.0
You would need at least 1 wsc modifier of 75% + (more likely 2)

At that point it is just as broken and similar as a world where everything crits....so how is it any different?

[hiko]

@ Dfoley

that sounds awful, why make every WS crit? The last thing they need to do is turn an already old game even more stale by making all jobs the same. the reason he mentions GK is for no reason, the empy GK WS is a good ws. empy scythe polearm and axe are the only ones that lack anything (due to mods, ftp value and low cratio bonus when they are suppose to ignore def). If anything they should be mindful of new WS and realize the value of these other aspects (cratio, ftp, mods, etc) instead of making everything the same, gives everyone even more reason to stay war with that everything crit mentality.

yes it's good, but, like kaiten, doesnt have pdiff boost making gekko situationaly better,
a WS anybody could use @cap75 shouldn't still be best

[Francisco]

Balance is important.

[Malamasala]

I want a real Summoner staff WS. Dealing damage that is transferred to your pet as healed HP or something would be nice. Or just a long stun move so that if your pet dies you can WS and then resummon. Something that deals damage and actually works together with your pet.

[brayen]

@ hiko

you are rationalizing that you should only ever need 1 WS? i actually don't like that. Can say this is a matter of opinion but it is nice to have variety such as a ws that can double a gekko in dmg (fudo), while still having such a strong back up WS like gekko if i ever find myself lacking in atk versus any mob. At the end of the day fudo should still be used ~95% of the time (at least as of current content). I will also disagree on how strong a weaponskill should be based on the level of attainment. As far as sam goes at 75 i loved the fact that Y/G/K all shared the same dmg and added different effects for example: different skillchain properties as well as added effects. The current problem i think is simply there is a large gap going from non emp or relic WS.

...meh wall of text TLR: new ws should be different and useful, however i think at least lv 60+ ws all(at least some) should be revised to a point where needing an emp or relic is not the only way to keep up, hope that makes sense?

@Dfoley

i know what it would take to make non-crit WS match up, but read my above statement, i rather have more closely similiar dmg outputs with varying pros and cons rather then one ends all beats all WS(as per my GK example). it would be understandable for a job like WAR who's only strong point is damage, however i would like to see other jobs gain more benefit in different ways. I want to see more to the game then all melee being just 1ws > tp repeat, else there wouldn't be a point to different jobs. example: adding aftermath to non emp/relic WS that bolster a job's strong point while still maintaining a close dmg output or strong added effects as well.

This all falls to matter of opinion since we are discussing future plans and what not, we could just as easily all list what we want for each weapon type too, i just trying to get my opinion out to hopefully not see a stale future for this game.

[Dfoley]

Thats fine for sam, but you have ws that already have debuffs and other uses. For Gaxe and H2H what would you propose since they already got jack squat other than dmg?

MNK/PUP:
No good ae
no elemental - and unless they make one based on str/atk over int/mab it will never be used outside of triggering amber light
No debuffs - 2 that ignore defense are as close as it comes

If you are gonna add a new ws there has to be a use for it otherwise 99% of the player will never touch it (see tornado kick). I would rather not get my end-of-game ws and never want to use it (final heaven) because it is worthless compared to easier/already obtained ws.

I could see a monk specific ws adding a virus like effect and drain 25% tp + -3tp/tic fitting the whole monk role and it might get some use even if the damage was terrible.

[Dfoley]

Just thinking about additional affects of WS:

warrior - reduces enemy acc/eva/atk depending on tp
MNK - tp drain and virus (eg: -25% tp and -3tp/tic) on mob
white mage - adds a buff that inc duration of heals recieved to party members, duration varries with tp
black mage - adds macc/mab depending on tp
red mage - adds a buff to make everyone in the groups next spell be insta cast
thief -
paladin - lowers everyone elses emnity by 12/25/50% depending on tp.
dark knight - dmg increases (greatly) as current hp% goes down
beast - adds spell haste to the pet (duration varies with tp)
bard
ranger
sam
nin
drg - adds a large stoneskin/phalnax to the pet along with a moderate pet heal, ammount varries with tp
summ - adds MAB/ATK bonus to pet and a small heal (10/25/50% heal) depending on tp
blu
cor
pup - adds haste/fast cast and heals pets hp/mp depending on tp (see bst)
dnc
sch - adds a ~regen 4 to all party members, duration varries with tp