[dev1049] New weapon skills

[brayen]

That's not true, you can unlock them all and have a free upgrade to spend on one of them.
What you can't do is get them all to max level, which is something I don't like either but I guess we'll learn to accept.

Really do hope they'll increase the category limit from 15 to something higher though, 20 or 25 for example.

That is what i mean. The fact remains you can only be on one weapon at a time so this just seems like forcing the players to limit themselves on how many jobs they will max out or gimp their weaponskill choice by not being able to max out the upgrade. Previously this sort of stuff was less of a problem as general merits were all very minimal but now we are potentially looking at 4 additional merits that will straight out boost your potential straight out. And the high cost makes it impractical to be changing your choice before departing from a home nation <something a few friends do with combat merits>. Knowing the general population i am sure i am not the only one who has more jobs then 3. going further then 3 will mean weaker performance.

edit:
"On the contrary, i understand it can be frustrating, but i like the merit system, and the way it applies to new ws, you have to make choices, you can't be the "best" in every job. "

why should we be limited? since day one this game applied the whole play "any job you wish to play just you have to level it"... unlike most games out there where you need to lvl a whole new character just to play the class. like i said before, can only use 1 weapon at a time so why make the barrier for entry to maximizing the job? by the quoted logic you should only be allowed to do 1 relic or 1 empy or WoE or mythic weapon.

[Zhronne]

Knowing the general population i am sure i am not the only one who has more jobs then 3.

This issue goes beyond that, seeing as some jobs can access to NINE (9) WSs, take WAR for example.
MNK can access H2H, Club and Staff.
Sam can access Great Katana, Polearm and Archery.
And so on.

I can understand SE developers wanting to put a limit there, they just need to make it higher.

[Yukichibi]

I really dislike the way they did these WS. The fact that you are stuck unlocking only 3 or if you are to unlock more you rightfully gimp them all.

On the contrary, i understand it can be frustrating, but i like the merit system, and the way it applies to new ws, you have to make choices, you can't be the "best" in every job.

[Insaniac]

On the contrary, i understand it can be frustrating, but i like the merit system, and the way it applies to new ws, you have to make choices, you can't be the "best" in every job.

Why do people always say this? What's wrong with all your jobs being as good as possible?

[Economizer]

Why do people always say this? What's wrong with all your jobs being as good as possible?

Exactly! The thing wrong with the merit system is that it goes completely against FFXI in every way possible. The whole job system is based about never having to be forced to compromise or settle down on one job, even temporarily, because you can always just go home to a Moogle and instantly change!

I don't mind "earning" the weapon skills via a merit point system, but if they're going to do that, they better have each be fully upgradable. Anything less is a disgrace to the job system they designed.

Edit: I want to make this very clear to SE reps reading this. This is unacceptable. I don't care if it takes one hundred merits per weapon skill to upgrade if it means we can upgrade them all, but limiting us is wrong. Shooting the job change system in the face is not good policy.

[brayen]

Exactly! The thing wrong with the merit system is that it goes completely against FFXI in every way possible. The whole job system is based about never having to be forced to compromise or settle down on one job, even temporarily, because you can always just go home to a Moogle and instantly change!

I don't mind "earning" the weapon skills via a merit point system, but if they're going to do that, they better have each be fully upgradable. Anything less is a disgrace to the job system they designed.

Edit: I want to make this very clear to SE reps reading this. This is unacceptable. I don't care if it takes one hundred merits per weapon skill to upgrade if it means we can upgrade them all, but limiting us is wrong. Shooting the job change system in the face is not good policy.

EXACTLY this is what has me disappointed on the new WS. If they are intent with keeping us limited at least make it less limited then this, only being able to max out 3 is very limiting out of 14 skills. As i have pointed out, you are already limited to one weaponskill when in combat so i see no point in this.

EDIT:

What i meant, is that you can't get specialized in every aspect, if we could it wouldn't be a specialization anymore.



Why do people always say this ? What's wrong with making choices and make certains aspects of your jobs as good as possible ?

It's an impossible debate, since there will always be pro and con.

How is it not a specialization anymore? you have to have the job leveled, and the combat skill, THEN you also have a quest. The fact that yes those are all attainable goals for anyone should not limit the fact that people wish to have more jobs then 3 in a specific field. There is no con to allowing players to have access to all the weaponskills. In the end of it all, you can only perform one weaponskill at a time, unlike job merits where you can use both JA that have recast timers on them or hp merits that are always active, etc.

[Zhronne]

Edit: I want to make this very clear to SE reps reading this. This is unacceptable. I don't care if it takes one hundred merits per weapon skill to upgrade if it means we can upgrade them all, but limiting us is wrong. Shooting the job change system in the face is not good policy.

Erm... did you forget that it's exactely the same for all other merits?
You can't get 8/8 on more than 4 kinds of weapon
You can't get all the categories inside "Others", you can't get 15/15 on both hp AND mp, you can't merit all attributes, and inside job specific merits you can't max up every single merit.
I mean, this usually doesn't have a huge impact, even more because the majority of those merits are "meh", so there aren't many situations where you'd want all the merits inside each category (altough I can think about a few!).

Not saying I agree with this, just saying you shouldn't be surprised or call this WS limit choice as "unacceptable" or "incoherent".
Seems consistent to the merit system as a whole to me.

But I still think that max 3 maxed up WS is not enough, allowing us to get at least 4 would be a much better compromise imho. WS are definitely way more important and relevant than the majority of other merits are, at least for a DD.

[Zhronne]

On the contrary, i understand it can be frustrating, but i like the merit system, and the way it applies to new ws, you have to make choices, you can't be the "best" in every job.

Altough I don't really like this view, I can accept it and respect it. It's not really the same here though. With merits within the same job you have to make choices, but those choices are inside a single job.
You don't get a limit like "if you got merits for MNK, WAR and SAM then you won't be able to get merits for WHM".
Which is quite the case for weaponskills.

Once again, I'm fine with the limit, but they should make it a bit higher, like 20! That would be 4 different maxed up WS, I'd call myself satisfied on such a comrpomise.

[Dfoley]

I really dislike the way they did these WS. The fact that you are stuck unlocking only 3 or if you are to unlock more you rightfully gimp them all. You can only be on one weapon skill table at a time so this is just trying to force players to specialize on fewer jobs.

I was actually kind of hoping thats how t3 merits would be. Make them so powerful that they can only justify you getting it for 3 jobs.

[brayen]

I was actually kind of hoping thats how t3 merits would be. Make them so powerful that they can only justify you getting it for 3 jobs.

The thing is those are tied to individual jobs, these are weapon specific, so not really tied to anything, sort of like attribute, you are forced to pick one. So for example: i can unlock GA, GK, and Polearm, and max them out but then i am left with nothing for my MNK and PUP or i can gimp one of the other jobs just to have access to a gimped out weaponskill and so on.

again really dislike that, they take lots of merits too so i cant just change based on the job i will be using before i exit my mog like i do with combat merits already.