Same-Sex Marriages

[Cellsplitter]

Well the thing is, marraige itself was originally a religious institution long before it had legal ramifications in any government. So it's hard not to bring any such bias to the table.

I guess it depends on the country you live in. But I don't want that to be an excuse

[Deadvinta]

I can't find it, but I could have sworn someone said there are no gay people in the storyline.

My response to that is "someone hasn't played Wings of the Goddess~~."

[Hyperon]

If you allow two male humes to marry next will be a galka and a beastmen or a mithra and a moogle. We must up hold...wait...do we even have guidelines for sexual orientation in this game....in that case fuck it, go crazy! I personally don't care

[Tenshibaby]

You shouldn't equate "progressive" with "progress".

[Fiarlia]

Really? I was hoping it'd be a lot longer before this retarded topic was brought up.

Personally, I have no issue with homosexual men, or bisexual men, or lesbians, or even transsexuals, nor what or who they do in real life. In fact, in real life, I'm in support of gay marriage. Not to say I'm pro-gay, I just don't give a *** and think if someone wants to marry they should be able to.

However, FFXI != real life. It's a video game, and while it's not really marketed or directed at 13 year olds, they are able to play it and would likely be a factor in the decision making process at SE. If you look at the US, it's quite obvious that there's a large amount of people who are against gay marriage. Again, I'm not, and I think people who are are just plain stubborn, bigoted, or an overly religious fanatic, perhaps even stupid. However, I know that I'm not quite in the majority, and I'm sure that anyone who is gay/bi/lesbian/transgender is also aware of this, hence why gay marriage isn't legal in so many states.

Whether or not you want to admit it, SE would receive a ton of backlash if they allowed this. From politicians, to retailers, to parents, to anyone looking for another excuse to criticize the game industry and/or MMO's. Hell, even just criticize SE themselves.

Asking a company that puts out games and content that you love to play to get behind your own views and be publicly liberal and pro-gay-marriage is honestly selfish. This is a video game, not the streets of San Fransisco where you can have your parade. This is not the proper means or outlet to cry out about the injustices you have to suffer at the hands of stubborn politicians, regardless of how much of right you actually have to cry (which I think you do - just not here).

Just because you might be gay does not mean that every facet of you life, online and off, has to be involved with the gay movement.

***, instead of wasting the time of this forums readers and the DEV team (since they addressed this YEARS ago that they would not do this) by posting this, why not write a letter to your Governer or Senator? Or organize a peaceful protest in front of City Hall? Or if you're one of the gay people that happens to be lucky enough to live in a state that accepts you and allows you to marry, write to the heads of other states?

I'm all for gay rights, but come on, people, pick and choose your battles. This one is a lost cause and a waste of energy.

[Alkalinehoe]

Melodicya mentioned the worldwide T rating. While in America it is commonly accepted in video games, there may be other countries that aren't as tolerant on this subject. And adjusting the game for certain country doesn't work, as it's an international MMORPG, and it's not something that can just be censored for certain countries, it's a core game feature.

I get that other countries have different rating systems, but it really isn't a core game feature. It's an event that so little actually take advantage of and really is meant for the few dedicated who actually want to take it up. Heck, I would be fine if the ceremony didn't even involve any kissing (never been to a in game wedding before, so not sure exactly if they kiss, just as long as it's open to other players. It really baffles me that other countries would raise the rating just for that single thing. I recall another MMO that allowed their in game marriages to open up to same sex couples without any ratings scandal (the name escapes me atm) but it shows it can be done.

I don't know anything about Sims 3 that strikes me as "graphic" enough to get worse than a Teen rating. Anything that is "graphic" gets bleeped/blocked out/pixelated so you can't really see it. And Sims 3 as far as I know does not have GLBT marriage.

Not sure about The Sims 3, but in The Sims 2 there were GLBT marriages. And yes, everything is pixelated but they still recieve the same pixelated sex as the straight sims.

There are some females that play as Galka, on my server anyways.

I didn't mean if there were no females playing galkas, I meant that if SE considered the Galkan race males. So if a Galka could marry a female player or could not marry at all.

However, FFXI != real life. It's a video game, and while it's not really marketed or directed at 13 year olds

,

Are you implying 13 year olds can't be gay or know what homosexuality is? I can assure you most know more than you think.

they are able to play it and would likely be a factor in the decision making process at SE. If you look at the US, it's quite obvious that there's a large amount of people who are against gay marriage

Most polls (and elections, Prop 8 for example) show that America is pretty much split down the half on the issue, with just slightly more leaning towards gay marriage. So they are certainly not the majority.

Again, I'm not, and I think people who are are just plain stubborn, bigoted, or an overly religious fanatic, perhaps even stupid. However, I know that I'm not quite in the majority, and I'm sure that anyone who is gay/bi/lesbian/transgender is also aware of this, hence why gay marriage isn't legal in so many states.

From laws that are old and are meant to keep bigotry rampant. Not to mention that there are many republican states and the elected officials (Judges, governors, senators, etc) that are not in favor of gay marriage, however, they do not always do what their people want them to do.

Whether or not you want to admit it, SE would receive a ton of backlash if they allowed this. From politicians, to retailers, to parents, to anyone looking for another excuse to criticize the game industry and/or MMO's. Hell, even just criticize SE themselves.

A ton of backlash from a nearly decade old game that frankly no one but the dedicated players care about? SE has already shown with their lesbian couple in XIII that they aren't opposed to same sex relationships. From what the moderator said earlier (I know, not an official SE statement but I will go with it) they are more concerned about the ratings increase then with the issue itself.

Asking a company that puts out games and content that you love to play to get behind your own views and be publicly liberal and pro-gay-marriage is honestly selfish.

Really? Cause honestly, most of the straight people who were in here said they SE shouldn't because of their religious/political views. I guess everyone is a little selfish which comes to my next comment,

This is a video game, not the streets of San Fransisco where you can have your parade.

No matter how much you claim to agree with gay marriage advocates, with your pointless stereotypes you aren't helping the situation nor are you contributing. It just makes you look like an ill informed man.

Just because you might be gay does not mean that every facet of you life, online and off, has to be involved with the gay movement.

Then why did SE include the marriage in the first place? Obviously straight people need to be 100% straight 100% of the time.

***, instead of wasting the time of this forums readers and the DEV team (since they addressed this YEARS ago that they would not do this) by posting this, why not write a letter to your Governer or Senator? Or organize a peaceful protest in front of City Hall? Or if you're one of the gay people that happens to be lucky enough to live in a state that accepts you and allows you to marry, write to the heads of other states?

I fail to see this thread any less worthy then any other thread in the forum. I was unaware this issue was brought up in the past with SE, however, what is wrong with trying to improve upon a game you play? Yes it's a game, but it's also something many people invest a lot of time in, straight or gay, so any suggestion a player has (within reason, and this request is) is valid.

[Alhanelem]

but it really isn't a core game feature.

It doesn't have to be a core game feature for the rating to be affected. if there is sex, or violence, or alcohol anywhere in a game, even if it's in some side quest minigame, it will affect the rating.

Marriage is an agreement and a commitment between a man and a woman, god and their society.

This statement is currently in dispute across the US and other places, so I do not consider it in discussing this topic. People can get a marriage license and marry without ever saying anything about God, and people who don't believe in god or believe in some other deity can still get married.

A same-sex couple does not procreate.

Sometimes I get the feeling that people in general are afraid that GLBT folks will take over the world and become the norm or something. But this simple fact prevents that from happening. Some of them do raise children, but they are never entirely biologically the product of the couple.

[hollowsgrief]

Really? So is that why in many manga there are gays and lesbians? You are aware of the fact that Japan believes in homosexual love, right? This was put to make sure that their consumers for the game are not offended. This way they make money, without having to deal with unnecessary lawsuits and politics about an MMO where lesbians and gays are in it. Besides, it's an online GAME. Get out into the real world if you want to do something with the same sex. You're fussing over the fact that 1's and 0's can't "legally" get digitally married. And you are aware that Japan is a completely different Country, and has entirely different laws, yes? So you saying "Unconstitutional" is completely irrelevant, the U.S. constitution has absolutely nothing to do with them.

[Alkalinehoe]

/Snip

Amazing post.

It doesn't have to be a core game feature for the rating to be affected. if there is sex, or violence, or alcohol anywhere in a game, even if it's in some side quest minigame, it will affect the rating.

I only said it wasn't a core game feature because the person i was quoting claimed it was. Obviously anything in a game, weather it be obscure or blatant, is subject to ratings. However, to equate gay marriage with a graphic depiction of shooting another person in the head (found in most FPS games and most tend to be M-rated) is extremely childish and depressing.

Really? So is that why in many manga there are gays and lesbians? You are aware of the fact that Japan believes in homosexual love, right? This was put to make sure that their consumers for the game are not offended. This way they make money, without having to deal with unnecessary lawsuits and politics about an MMO where lesbians and gays are in it. Besides, it's an online GAME. Get out into the real world if you want to do something with the same sex.

A game is a game is a game. I wish people would stop pulling out the real life card and actually contribute some worthwhile discussion.

You're fussing over the fact that 1's and 0's can't "legally" get digitally married. And you are aware that Japan is a completely different Country, and has entirely different laws, yes? So you saying "Unconstitutional" is completely irrelevant, the U.S. constitution has absolutely nothing to do with them.

That was the joke.

[Xilk]

Really? So is that why in many manga there are gays and lesbians? You are aware of the fact that Japan believes in homosexual love, right? This was put to make sure that their consumers for the game are not offended. This way they make money, without having to deal with unnecessary lawsuits and politics about an MMO where lesbians and gays are in it. Besides, it's an online GAME. Get out into the real world if you want to do something with the same sex. You're fussing over the fact that 1's and 0's can't "legally" get digitally married. And you are aware that Japan is a completely different Country, and has entirely different laws, yes? So you saying "Unconstitutional" is completely irrelevant, the U.S. constitution has absolutely nothing to do with them.

Most homosexual romances in Japan are consumed by a female audience. It is largely presented as a 'more equal romance' that is desired by women in Japan who feel a great divide in equal rights between men and women in relationships in Japan.
The remaining stories are mostly comedies making fun of homosexuality.

Sure the stories are there, but they are like so many teenagers dating someone from the other side of the tracks... they don't often bring them home to meet mom and dad.
Also, it takes very few people to publish an idea. Depending on the presentation more than the content, Masses will pay lip service to it. Very few will internalize and accept it.

A game is a game is a game. I wish people would stop pulling out the real life card and actually contribute some worthwhile discussion.

A game is not just a game any more than a book is just a book or an essay is an essay. The media and ideas you consume or just dwell around shape attitudes, beliefs and choices. It is very naive if this is not understood in online culture. That is why it matters.
Often people live in idealogical microcosms. It could be a small town factory or church. It could be a University. It could be the business executives elite in the downtown metro area. Inside the microcosm it is thought "Well, everyone thinks this way!"
Guess what. Its not true. Sometimes its just the loud ones that no one is arguing with. Sometimes everyone in the microcosm does think the same way... but thats why they are a microcosm. Guess what, every county is a microcosm too. It is surprising to find the beliefs that are held "universally true" (no I"m not refering to religion at all, just life) in once culture and completely opposite from those in another culture.
A mild and safe example that jumps to mind is what I consider a japanese superstition: If you eat too many peanuts, you will get a nosebleed.
Its just a little myth. Plenty of these in any culture, but it surprised me alot while living in Japan. It seemed quite silly to me. However it is quite easily accepted in Japan as a minor medical knowledge.

Same-sex marriage is not about providing freedom for a small group. It is about depriving freedom for a large one.
Individual choices are one thing. Changing laws and policies is quite another. That is when you are imposing will upon others.