Warping Directly To BCNM Circles

[Ladycandygem]

What is so bad about walking there? If it is such a displeasureable experience, that just connecting one place to another is such an ordeal for you, it seems to me like too much fun has been sucked out of the game for you at that point. And if the level of tedium gets to that point for me, I'd almost certainly be moving on to another game at that point.

There are fun parts to the game, but unfortunately for BCNMs to get to the fun part you have to run for 15 minutes. I want the fun parts without the tedium. Is that too much to ask for in a game? And generally I don't do BCNMs because of this tedium.

There's convenience, then there's easy buttoning. This is easy buttoning. There's such a thing as too much convenience.

There is a difference between easy and convenient. If I was asking that every fight be winnable in one spell, that would be too easy. Nobody is asking for that, and I am all for challenging fights. Running 15 minutes to get to a fight is not hard, just annoying.

Let's make all the teleport spells all jobs, level 1, no MP cost. That would be really convenient. Let's make it so when you enter any area, there's an NPC right at the entrance that can teleport you to any point of interest in the area. Any ???, any NPC, any other zone line. That would be really convenient.
... If that sounds extreme, well that's essentially what you're asking for in this thread. If it doesn't sound extreme, then gosh dang, I don't mean to offend but you're lazy.

Would it be so terrible if this did happen? Obviously you'd have to have been to an area before, so you can't just suddenly teleport somewhere you'd never been, but would it really break the game?

Games are supposed to be fun. Imagine you were playing Call of Duty but before every match you had to spend 15 minutes running to the zone. Nobody would play it. But in MMOs people have come to accept unnecessary time sinks. I don't think we should have to accept it, and we should be able to ask for improvements that will make the experience more enjoyable.

And even if they did put these teleports in, you don't have to use them. If you want a long walk to a battlefield to enjoy the scenery, you still could.

[Soranika]

Imagine you were playing Call of Duty

Ewww, no. Games like Call of Duty are about instant gratification, MMO's are not.

[Komori]

You make it seem like BCNM warps alone will condemn the rest of the game.

Like people don't already still have to run to various other places, I'm kind of worried for you that you seem to care for pixels so much that it upsets you when they are ignored. But they wouldn't be anymore ignored than they are now; will it kill me to walk through a zone, no. But alot of the times when I'm sitting in Port Jeuno; trying to find something that peaks my interest but isn't too much of a hassle for my current mood. I COULD have done a BCNM, but when your in a half-ass mood then you don't want to warp around and then run for another 5-15 minutes.

But not everyone will start doing BCNMs just because they're more accessible, people say it should be a requirement that you've already gone there; maybe even doing a quest to be able to warp there. That's work to be able to do something most games have in them. Most games let you teleport to each battlefield and you have to run anywhere besides a battlefield; which is pretty much all we're asking here, and what we already have elsewhere.

But I guess you; if you could would remove Chocobos, Teleport and Warp Scrolls too right? Confluxes, Horst and all of his compansions and anything remotely close to making travel easier on a player who has little time.

[Kaych]

I support the OP a 100%. Why this havent been implemeted years ago I have no idea.

The conserns about RMTs taking over the AH because of this warp-method is retarded IMO. SE shouldnt design a game around RMTs and hold back the gameexperience for many. They should find better ways to deal with RMTs instead...
In my experience people dont wanna do BCNMs and Avatar fights cos it is so far away. Some even never finish the lvl 20 avatar fights, just to be able to warp to the Cloister of Trials. The fact is that people want this and have been wanting it for years... not that you should have anything you want, but come on... you get 8 different warps inside 1 zone in abyssea >_>

Lastly, make it a challenging quest to be able to warp to the BCNM. Example: When you to have finished all the 4 cloudy orb BCNMs, you can warp to those locations if you need to do a cloudy orb BCNM. When you have finished all the sky orbs-bcnms you can warp to them if you need to do a sky orb BCNM and so on... Dont just give away the warp like the Abyssea warps, make people work for it!
And this way people will do new BCNMs, KSNMs etc because 'they wanna catch them all!'.

[Alhanelem]

You make it seem like BCNM warps alone will condemn the rest of the game.

I totally admit it's a slippery slope, but it's a pretty probable one because they occasionally do make travel easier. But even after they do, people always ask for them to make it even easier.

But I guess you; if you could would remove Chocobos, Teleport and Warp Scrolls too right? Confluxes, Horst and all of his compansions and anything remotely close to making travel easier on a player who has little time.

No, aboslutely not. I don't consider these to be too easy/lazy. Chocobos still have you moving through an area, and they can't go everywhere. Teleports require a certain job, have a cast time, and don't go to a wide range of places. Confluxes are limited to different spots within an area, and they have a cost. I'm not totally thrilled with them only because I think they are the cause of people suggesting we get instant teleports to everywhere else as well. People complained a lot less about stuff like this just a few years ago. The easier it gets, the easier people want it.

Most games let you teleport to each battlefield

List them? Most of the ones I've played either don't or their game world is too small for it, or their gameworld is too disjointed and requires teleports because there's no other way.
The last time I played WoW, you still had to travel to dungeons, other continents, etc. The only thing you can jump straight to are the PvP areas.
DDO, almost the entire game is situated within one big city or directly connected to it;
MapleStory has hardly any convenient travel unless you pay money for it (The game probably most in need of better travel) FFXIB has instant travel between certain fixed points, but you can't just teleport to where the battles are, you still have to do some walking.

There are BCNMs in a lot of different places. Consider how many warps are necessary. Consider the Summoner mini quests and how some people don't even use them for their intended purpose but as a means of free travel to hard to reach places. When you consider the location of the various BC areas, I think these would be abused to travel to these areas for reasons other than doing BCNMs, which is the main reason I don't like them. I suppose if you initiated the fight right at Shami and got warped into the arena itself so it couldn't be abused, it might work.

[FrankReynolds]

What slippery slope? Like building things players want into a game? Yeah. that would be terrible. RMTs aren't doing BCNMs. There is nothing to "abuse" in these areas. Warps are not easy mode. In a game where people insist that a vast portion of the population still plays on shitty PS2 graphics, looking at scenery is hardly an excuse.

[Alhanelem]

TL;DR: Yes, BCNM teleports is easy mode.

What slippery slope? Like building things players want into a game?

Not everything some people want should make it into a game. It's what I call easy buttoning. People ask for something to make the game easier. They get it. Then they figure they got that, so they can ask to make the game even easier. Once all transportation easiness is provided, then they can start making the fights themselves easier and easier, until we start asking for the fights to start out beat the moment you enter them, because all that tedious monster killing takes too much time. Eventually, the game will just play itself so we don't have to.



Yes, that's ridiculous and over the top. But the point I'm trying to make is- I don't like it when most things get easy buttoned. When the game starts feeling more like work than a game, that's when it's time to move on. I don't mind some shortcuts here and there, e.g. making some of these lesser traveled areas faster to access (example: make the boat thing between zeruhn and palborough mines a two-way path), especially where imbalances exist (e.g. Horlais Peak is disproportionately more time consuming to reach compared to the other two). But I don't think we should be getting teleported straight to the BCs. At an extreme minimum, if there is a teleport you should have to use an orb and complete a battle at a given BCNM area once before you can jump there.

There is nothing to "abuse" in these areas.

Yes, there is, as it makes certain places that are *supposed* to be remote much closer at hand. People already use the shiva mini-battle to get to fei'yin for other purposes instead of to actually fight shiva (whether it be low or high or the carby prep fight), which people who actually did the quest can't do- I consider that an abuse of a function for something other than what was intended. Some of the zilart mission BCs require navigating a maze or meeting certain conditions to be able to reach, being able to teleport to these would let you skip all that stuff that they intended for you to be put through- you could go there and do the mission instead of the BCNM. People say they want these for quick access to BCNM fights- even if that's all they really want, it can still be used for whatever you want to do in those places.

[FrankReynolds]

TL;DR: Yes, BCNM teleports is easy mode.
Yes, that's ridiculous and over the top. But the point I'm trying to make is- I don't like it when most things get easy buttoned. When the game starts feeling more like work than a game, that's when it's time to move on.

Why would I quit when they could just add a warp? Why would anybody quit over this? There is a difference between removing minor nuisances, and breaking the game. Only certain parts feel like work. the rest is fun. Making the game more fun and less work is a good thing no matter what derogatory term you apply to it. And BTW, easy button actually sounds positive despite what your trying to do with the term. I like easy button. That's why I play FFXI, not rugby.

Yes, there is, as it makes certain places that are *supposed* to be remote much closer at hand. People already use the shiva mini-battle to get to fei'yin for other purposes instead of to actually fight shiva (whether it be low or high or the carby prep fight), which people who actually did the quest can't do- I consider that an abuse of a function for something other than what was intended. Some of the zilart mission BCs require navigating a maze or meeting certain conditions to be able to reach, being able to teleport to these would let you skip all that stuff that they intended for you to be put through- you could go there and do the mission instead of the BCNM. People say they want these for quick access to BCNM fights- even if that's all they really want, it can still be used for whatever you want to do in those places.

This is all just silly. You don't know what they intended, nor do you have authority to say. You speak a lot as if you built the game. You didn't. There is no maze. Everyone has been there a thousand times. the graphics in these areas are pretty crappy. The mobs are low level and of no concern for anyone going to the BCNM. When they created this stuff, there was a need to create artificial difficulty in order to keep the content from being over done. They have added massive amounts of content since then, and no longer have that need.

[Eric]

When the game starts feeling more like work than a game, that's when it's time to move on.

You DO realize, that walking 15 minutes to a BCNM is the work, while the actual battle is the "fun", right? You sound like you're a little confused, sir.

Some of the zilart mission BCs require navigating a maze or meeting certain conditions to be able to reach, being able to teleport to these would let you skip all that stuff that they intended for you to be put through- you could go there and do the mission instead of the BCNM.

Okay, then just make it a requirement that you must have already visited the BCNM at least once before you can warp there. That's how every single warp that already exists in the game works. Problem solved. People still have to "solve the maze."

I actually found it quite funny that this was one of the points you were trying to make, because it doesn't matter anyways. A majority of people already use the wikis(you know, like ffxiclopedia and gamerescape) to avoid having to do any of the brainwork themselves.

This is all just silly. You don't know what they intended, nor do you have authority to say. You speak a lot as if you built the game. You didn't.

Don't mind him. This seems to be a recurring theme with him.

Alhanelem seems to have some secret insight as to what the developers think, do, have done, and will do. (I've heard some rumors involving tinfoil hats and telepaths.)

[Soranika]

You know what, in the mist of just running around doing random stuff and being like... not lazy and completing some Add-on missions, it dawned at me that this whole thing is completely stupid. Allow me to explain.

So far, thanks to Voidwatch, you can warp to some locations that other wise would have never been traveled too because traveling through certain areas suck. It's understandable. Now Voidwatch is going to be entering it's third chapter, but it's not the last one. What if... by some whacky chance, the third or forth chapter have Voidwatch rifts in Beastmen territory. Voidwatch officers will be obligated to warp you to the entrances of these places. Seems like a win for people wanting a faster way to BCNM locations since it does lower some travel time. ...Provided you do actually complete these voidwatch chapters to obtain the ability to warp to these areas.