Level 99 Relics and Empyreans

[Atoreis]

From personal experiance, you don't need more than ~35% PDT to survive in VW. Meaning Chersos Helm(4)+Mekira Meikogeki(12)+Dark Rings(24)+Magma Gauntlets(28)+Mollusca Mantle(32)+Wiglen Gorget(38) is more than enough. Grim Cuirass +1 is probably an upgrade, because you don't really need the 2% PDT (though it's still god for MDT). Either way this leaves you with room for a combination of 21~26% haste on Ukon(depending on if you drop body for grim cuirass and use bullwhip, or drop hands for dusk+1 and keep body). Though not capped it should be enough to still stay on top of DD.

You should still have a OSHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII set for heavy hitting TP moves and obviously a MDT set for spells/magic abilities.

So basically if you're smart, the sentinel effect from Metatron Torment is nothing more than a nicety.

Edit: Also, I've never been one shotted while using said 35% PDT set, unless it was from Death Prophet.

You not responded to my post and I'm pretty sure 35% pdt is only enough for mnk to not be one shoted by Deadly Hold but yeah in good ally you wont ever be w/o fanatic on Qilin or you can just seigan when fana down and probably wont get hit but if you would that probably end up one shooting you. Im not sure about Uptala Tp moves too ( I saw Nin got hit for 2200 today) and I have no idea about dmg from Caleano because I only tanked adds there but mages were saying something about random 1500 crit hits (so maybe not one shot but TP move + hit w/o pause between them can happen).

[Leonlionheart]

You can get 1 shotted from Deadly Hold in 50% PDT (did 1700 to some DRK), he must've been using berserk and last resort (lol he wasn't /sam) but still.

Also, I've never EVER gotten close to running out of MP WHM/SCH in VW. Generally always over 300, without using sublimation (usually have BRD or RDM or COR in party)

[Atoreis]

You can get 1 shotted from Deadly Hold in 50% PDT (did 1700 to some DRK), he must've been using berserk and last resort (lol he wasn't /sam) but still.

Also, I've never EVER gotten close to running out of MP WHM/SCH in VW. Generally always over 300, without using sublimation (usually have BRD or RDM or COR in party)

On MNK I got hit for 1590 Hold and was barely on orange HP :P

[Insaniac]

Well they do have a hidden effect. Occasionally deals 2 to 3 times dmg. The amount and proc rate depends on which weapon. We also can't tell how the proc rate increases until relic owners upgrade to the final stage, and they've gotten sizable boosts the past 2 updates.

I know. I'm saying they would have to add a NEW hidden effect. Most of them would have to be rebuilt from the ground up. Mage relics would need mage stats. Most relics would need entirely new WSs and aftermaths. It does not appear that they have done any of those things.

[Dragonlord]

My point is relics don't need their WS to activate the ODD or OTD. For example if gungnir brings Occ. 2.5x up near 30%, in addition to its 35 acc and higher base dmg, it shatters rhongomiant. Granted rhong is probably the worst melee emp in general, lol.

[Insaniac]

Here's the JP description and google translate of the 3 85 daggers.

Ｄ46 隔176 攻+30 マーシーストローク
追加効果:毒

Ｄ43 隔200
不意打ち&だまし討ち性能アップIII
マンダリクスタッブ
アフターマス:命中+/攻+/時々2回攻撃

Ｄ45 隔176 DEX+10 ルドラストーム
アフターマス:時々2倍撃

Mercy Stroke Attack +30 DMG 176 D46
Additional Effect: Poison

DMG 200 D43
Up III deceptive attack and surprise performance
Manda stub Jobs
Aftermath: Occasionally attacks twice + / + Attack / Accuracy

Rudra 176 DEX +10 DMG Storm D45
Aftermath: sometimes attack twice

As you can see, the Mandau doesn't even mention aftermath and the other 2 translate directly to aftermath.

[Leonlionheart]

Still unlikely.

[Insaniac]

Still unlikely.

It seems broken for emp/mythic to me too but I can't think of anything else that "Aftercircle" could mean. If it does turn out to be AoE then relics will fall so far behind in usefulness it's pathetic. AoE gear haste for people who's gear haste is already capped? Subtle Blow? I can hear my Kikoku friends Mijin Gakureing in real life already. We'll see what happens I guess but I sense a gigantic FU for relics.

[hiko]

It seems broken for emp/mythic to me too but I can't think of anything else that "Aftercircle" could mean. If it does turn out to be AoE then relics will fall so far behind in usefulness it's pathetic. AoE gear haste for people who's gear haste is already capped? Subtle Blow? I can hear my Kikoku friends Mijin Gakureing in real life already. We'll see what happens I guess but I sense a gigantic FU for relics.

disagree here. if aftercycle is aoe aftermath only ONE DD in pt need empy, other play with their relic, get hidden proc+ODD from aftercycle and just outDD the empy if they have a strong base WS (need to not use relic ws to not overwrite the odd )

[Insaniac]

disagree here. if aftercycle is aoe aftermath only ONE DD in pt need empy, other play with their relic, get hidden proc+ODD from aftercycle and just outDD the empy if they have a strong base WS (need to not use relic ws to not overwrite the odd )

I see your point and I thought about that but it doesn't change the fact that the emp is the reason you can make that happen. That's why I said "in usefulness". An emps after circle would be so much more valuable and usefull than a relics and given the choice people would always rather have a 99 emp than a 99 relic in their party. Also as far as aftermaths overwriting, all 3 weapon types aftermath have a different buff ID so in theory they would stack so that's an upside. No doubt if they stack a Relic/Emp/Mythic DD party would be balls to the walls insane but the take it or leave it element of that party is the relic because unless they change the aftermaths drastically they are negligible compared to OA3 and ODD.