Stout Servant and SMNs - Remove the halving effect

[Annalise]

Annalise,

I agreed with you in the regard on the 2 pet jobs being like apple and orange. One is based on MP the other used to be based on Charm but is now essentially 100% on jug. My agrument is that for almost all the use cases between SMN and BST, a SMN can overcome their limitations whereas the BST has a much harder limitation to overcome which is the timer. There's a physical hard limit (time reduction gears) that is much harder to deal with then say MP recovery (i.e. temp items, /refresh, refresh 2, ballard, convert, etc).

As for the other pet job, DRG has Steady Wing which is basically a SS on your bird (3min duration, 5min recast). Not sure how many dmg it reduces since I've hardly ever play DRG anymore other than doing proc as DRG in VW now a day.

Yeah. Beastmaster's issue is the call beast timer (and I'd add in ready! too, but BST is more DoT than Spike damage). Summoner's issue is the bloodpact recast timer, but that's completely different.

We pretty much do agree on everything. I also agree that summoner has a much easier time overcoming those issues in regards to keeping a pet out.

Apples to oranges.

And yeah, Steady wing is a set %. I don't know how the % stacks with stout servant, though. I think I recall seeing it was 40% or something like that. It makes me wonder if Stout servant will be reduced by 40% total damage, just like it is reduced by 50% total damage on summoner.

[Dekusuta]

They're pet jobs, and summoners are closer to BSTs than say a Dragoon. Pups is like a hybrid Summoner/Dragon/Bst in its DDing abiliting.

My point was that there's not really this wide pool of pet jobs to pick from. Yes, naturally each job is distinct, but my argument was that Summoners haven't really progressed as far as beastmasters have since 80+

1) This is due to having essentially the same summons and marginal BPs being added, 2)Summoner pets losing our absolute advantage in PDT (more on this later);3) nothing done to address our BP timers;

Though I'm not arguing for BSTs to lose anything, (note I never asked for nerfs) my only point was to at minimum ask for stout servant to be applied along with the 50% PDT bonus calc together, so we gain 56.7 PDT. A small change.

Further to this, I would like to point out that SE has capped Avatar HP at 1,000 at 95. That's more or less what we had on our avatars at 75, though I never tested this. I did test my avatar at 95 and found it to be 1000 HP on too weak Apkallus that countered for a nice even 10 damage (took 1% health off each time) and the two hits it did manage to land 5 damage and 4 damage (for a total of 9) didn't shave off the 1% as it was 1 hp off from the treshold.

So not only have BSTS gained tremenously via PDT, they now access pets with significantly larger HP pools than before.

Here's the sample chart of Nursery Nazuna HP by level

85 5030
86 5114
87 ~(5190)
88 5272
89 5350
90 5430

Courier Carrie , according to very old tests done had about 3k HP. Even if you account for Beast Affinity raising caps, it's still significantly less HP AND damage than what BSTs had access to now.

There's no equivalent to summoners, unless we get avatars with 2 or 3k HP pools, that hit significantly harder on melee rounds and has higher damage output than our old avatars. But wait, we didn't get any new avatars and we're still using predator claws and the old lineup of BPs meritable at 95

BSTs are getting easily pets with 2k more HP than before that hit harder, then on top of that access to 40% PDT to that entire HP pool. Yes, it's absolutely a huge difference.

Had they scaled Avatar HP accordingly I wouldn't care as much because It may not have been noticable that our pets are suddenly going down so much faster against an array of mobs with higher damage output to 'balance' our collectively higher HP pools, healing capabilities and buffed characters across all jobs.

[Neisan_Quetz]

You do know BP damage scales with level/avatar INT right? And Bst pets aren't anywhere near as sacrifice able or requiring as much maintenance as avatars do right? What exactly are you complaining about, that you don't have to wear specific gear and use up as much inventory to get less than what avatars have naturally in DT/Maintenance?


Smn has a viable niche in party play, and none of them really require stout servant. Bst doesn't (have a viable niche in party play).

[Dekusuta]

And Bst pets aren't anywhere near as sacrifice able or requiring as much maintenance as avatars do right? What exactly are you complaining about, that you don't have to wear specific gear and use up as much inventory to get less than what avatars have naturally in DT/Maintenance?


Smn has a viable niche in party play, and none of them really require stout servant. Bst doesn't (have a viable niche in party play).

Yes I agree. Parties is fine. They dont expect you to tank their NMs. Endgame stuff is fine. Mass avatar spam is fine, but I don't agree with the idea that we should be happy because we're fine in parties. The game has evolved, and while our place in parties has been more stable with the evolution of the community, it's not really relevant to my comment or my OP suggestion, which I'll point out again is only asking for Stout Servant II to be applied as if it is an extension of the Avatar's base PDT bonus so we get the fully bonus instead of it only applying, the the portion of damage taken after the PDT bonus has been applied, which effectively halves the effect of all PDT gear, traits and what not. And certainly, it's also relevant to pointing out that our pets are still stuck at 1,000 HP at 95. So the survivability of our pets is way down from before. And we haven't been able to a) summon pets any faster b) have lower Bp timers to truly zerg and make use of the short window our pets can stay alive c) have new pets that can do a) & b) and maybe d) do more/different types of damage.

So noting our loss in relative positions is warranted. There's no call for parity or that BSTs must be nerfed. I actually like where they took the job, but I'm less satisfied with how they've treaded water with ours.

I'm not complaining about gear, I'm not sure where you got that idea. I'm noting that our job have lost relatively to BSTs in big ways. This is different than saying BSTs got X, SMN must get Y to be equal. This certainly isn't about parity. BSTs should be able to low man and solo better than we can. .

You do know BP damage scales with level/avatar INT right?

I'm aware of this, but most SMNs probably also assume this even if they don't know for sure. What they probably don't know is their Avatar's HP hasn't scaled. Which would have been an obvious assumption given our HP go up when we level and BSTs and other pet HP go up when they are at a higher level.

The irony of this is that for many SMNs they have more Hp than their pets. And this didn't use to be the case. The only race where HP pool will still be smaller are Tarus. I know I only have 899 HP. But that's just an aside and a point of comparison to when I used to have about 700 hp while wearing Steppe Sash.

[Papesse]

Avatars have 1520 HP at 95 and 1600 HP at 99 on the test server. They had 1120 HP at 75. You should use better testing methods.

[Dekusuta]

Avatars have 1520 HP at 95 and 1600 HP at 99 on the test server. They had 1120 HP at 75. You should use better testing methods.

I have retested and confirmed.

Unless Avatar get variable HP depending on zone as I was certain the Apkallu I killed shaved 1% off per 10 damage counters on the boat to nashmau.

In anycase, I retract what I said about HP not scaling.

[Papesse]

The best way is to fight Kutharei/Resheph/Diabolos Diamond, all of these NMs have a TP move that reduces HP to 1. You will not find an exact value by calculating a small percentage HP.

[Annalise]

A great way is to get low HP on your avatar and use a healing salve 1. It restores 50% of pet hp.