Stout Servant and SMNs - Remove the halving effect

[Dekusuta]

Summoners are still shortchanged on this ability.

Recent tests show we do get Stout Servant II when capped at 95, but damage reduction is 3.2% or 1/2 of what a Beast or PUP would get on their pet.

For perspective, Stout Servant I gives other pet jobs 4.7% and II gives 6.7% damage reduction. So summoners are effectively getting Stout Servant 0.8, not even a tier I effect.

This is due to the way the damage formula has always been calculated halving any PDT gear's effects. There's certainly a case to be made about dishonesty in stats there as well with regards to the PDT gear summoners have access to but I just want to focus on the job trait in this case.

As Stout Servant also mitigates magic damage, getting half of its effects when avatars only mitigate physical damage seems unnecessary.

Is there any support to remove the penalty that seems specific to summoners?

[Karbuncle]

Maybe its like this because of the way Avatars Natural -PDT Is applied?


Sorry, Not a math genius and what I'm spouting may be nonsense, But i would imagine if they take -50%PDT normally, if you're testing using something like 1000 Needles, this -50%PDT on Avatars may be caculated separately than Stout Servant, as such cause it to look like you're getting less bonus...?

Yah, IDK :C

[Dekusuta]

Yes it's because of the 50% PDT native to avatars, therefore the reduction only applies to the other 50%

So the PDT -10% augment have from Moogle's Kupo D'etat Hat is 10% reduction applied to the 50% that is not mitigated so 5%.

I have no numbers on if the magical damage reduction on Stout Servant fully applies or is halved, but given the physical portion is halved, I can only guess.

I think it would be nice from an equity standpoint to do an adjustment to SMN's pdt. BST already far outclasses SMN when it comes to PDT in Abyssea. And they are more or less equal outside of it with PDT axes, full Stout Servant Buff, gear pieces and MKD hat bringing them up close to 50% and they can spam pet food too.

I'm not asking for a sweeping change on the other issues, just giving SMNs full Stout Servant buffs ; ;

[Foldypaws]

You *do* get the full Stout Servant buff.

The test linked showed 234 damage taken instead of 250. What's 234/250? .936 What's 1-.936? 6.4%. You take 6.4% less damage, *not* 3.2% less damage.

This complaint would be like WHM complaining that because of their MDB traits, they don't get the full bonus of -MDT and demanding that it be increased for them.

Or NIN complaining that haste doesn't reduce as much delay for them thanks to DW and demanding haste be stronger for them.

It's a basic lack of understanding in how the math works.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

You have -50% naturally, as a BST I'd be grateful with that. Okay so BST's get gear, so what I'd much rather have it naturally.

[Dekusuta]

You *do* get the full Stout Servant buff.

The test linked showed 234 damage taken instead of 250. What's 234/250? .936 What's 1-.936? 6.4%. You take 6.4% less damage, *not* 3.2% less damage.

again the damage reduction is applied to the damage taken after the 50% reduction is applied.

234/500 is only 3.2% extra

But I understand what you're saying and never argued otherwise. There's no need to be combative about this subject,

[Foldypaws]

My point is that it's not "a penalty specific to summoners". A NIN gets less flat delay reduced from a haste spell than a 2 hander. A WHM gets less flat damage reduced from shell than a BLM. A SMN pet gets less flat damage reduced than a BST pet.

But they all get the same *percentage* reduction of whatever it would be without the thing in consideration.

It's just the way the math works, and asking it to be changed for SMN is asking for an exception to the way multipliers work for every other thing in the game.

[Dekusuta]

My point is that it's not "a penalty specific to summoners". A NIN gets less flat delay reduced from a haste spell than a 2 hander. A WHM gets less flat damage reduced from shell than a BLM. A SMN pet gets less flat damage reduced than a BST pet.

But they all get the same *percentage* reduction of whatever it would be without the thing in consideration.

It's just the way the math works, and asking it to be changed for SMN is asking for an exception to the way multipliers work for every other thing in the game.

Again, you miss the point.

As a Pet job SMN relies 100% on our avatars and our relative 'dis'parity (BSTS with food always lasted longer than a SMN and I'm fine with that) of having a pet 'tank' has increased significantly since the magian trials, and Abyssea atmas because of how damage is calculated. We're also fairly gear locked with -perp and refresh pieces preventing us from using some of the -PDT available.

Mind you, I'm not even asking for a wholesale change or new gear. Just to apply the job traits as a flat bonus accuring with the avatar's PDT so it bump us up from 50% PDT to 56.7% PDT as a special 'bonus' because the stout servant trait is too weak on SMNs, and we're not getting the desired effect on our pets as a BST would nor have the gear flexibility of swapping out our Empyrean +2s for Moogle Trial hat for thatg extra 10% 5% because of our reliance on MP regen and not being able to rest with pets out.

This is a whole lot of words wasted on asking for an extra ~3.2% reduction. I don't even want to think how hard you would spaz if I asked for a 40% PDT trial staff so we'll get 20% actual damage reduction on our pets.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

So basically you want to just naturally be OP.

[Dekusuta]

So basically you want to just naturally be OP.

Asking for 56.7% native PDT on pets with less HP than a BST pet and no way to heal many of them effectively is OP now?

BSTS went from 0% PDT to easily 40% outside Abyssea without the need to gimp their jobs and they got a few new pets in the process with bigger HP pools and greater base damage. SMNs went from 50 to 53.2% on the same avatars. Sure we can get more but that requires swapping out refresh and -perp gear and looking like a clown.

That's not asking for OPing a job.