What would SE have to put on a shield for you to consider using it?

[Seriha]

I'd like them to avoid a "one shield to rule them all" situation. Sadly, shields are a defensive tool in a game where offense is king. It'd be nice if Shield Mastery were tweaked to have some offensive property like occasionally shield bashing on an attack round or randomly covering someone you're standing in front of (and blocking).

[ManaKing]

Make them break the haste cap and put large chunks of haste on them. I can't think of anything else that would really make up for losing out on Dual Wield. They'd have to introduce something pretty broken to make shields attractive when Dual Wield is on the table.

What if they let you break the haste cap if you had a shield on? Pretty much the same idea, but I don't want to put words in your mouth, if that wasn't your implication.

I think we are aware a shield doesn't make up for an offhand in any practical situation, much less the one where a RDM actually has Fencer.

I'd like them to avoid a "one shield to rule them all" situation. Sadly, shields are a defensive tool in a game where offense is king. It'd be nice if Shield Mastery were tweaked to have some offensive property like occasionally shield bashing on an attack round or randomly covering someone you're standing in front of (and blocking).

I like the potential on the shield bashing. The implications could go either way on it. If you make it so you have to be blocking to get attack procs then you would be pushing a RDMs roll as a tank. If you make the shield bash procs independent of actually blocking, then a RDM doesn't have to be tanking to get the benefit.

Then you have to decide if the shield bashing is about doing DPS/TPing or if it is about utility, aka stunning. I guess it could be both. If this only applies to jobs with Shield Mastery, then I would expect that Bucklers and smaller shields would hit more frequently for better DPS for RDMs and larger shields would hit less frequently, but for significantly more damage for enmity gain for PLDs. You could even give higher ranks of Shield Mastery and heavier shields higher chance to stun to give PLDs some extra utility.


As for the possibility of a passive Cover, I would love it. I throw myself in front of anything that is being attacked that is squishier than me with curing anyways. In a lot of situations, Cure IV doesn't do a lot to actually keep people alive by virtue of HP cured, but because spamming it grabs hate more than a single Cure V or VI. Some days I wish we hadn't been given Tranquil Heart, but other days I'm more than fine with it.

[cidbahamut]

What if they let you break the haste cap if you had a shield on? Pretty much the same idea, but I don't want to put words in your mouth, if that wasn't your implication.

I don't think simply lifting the cap alone would make shield viable. If I recall correctly(seriously, correct me if I'm wrong, I'd like to know), the delay reduction from Dual Wield III is roughly equivalent to an extra 25% haste, plus the bonus from Suppanomimi. So even if wearing a shield removes the cap, you'll have to come up with an additional 30% Haste gear just to break even on delay reduction, and you'll still be missing out on the benefits of the off-hand.

Don't get me wrong, I miss using shields myself but I just don't see it gaining ground beyond incredibly niche setups unless it's complimented with something else.

Unless of course you meant breaking the 80% hard cap, in which case Red Mage would simply become the new zerg machine swinging faster than a Monk with a Kraken Club and Hundred Fists up.

[Greatguardian]

I don't think simply lifting the cap alone would make shield viable. If I recall correctly(seriously, correct me if I'm wrong, I'd like to know), the delay reduction from Dual Wield III is roughly equivalent to an extra 25% haste, plus the bonus from Suppanomimi. So even if wearing a shield removes the cap, you'll have to come up with an additional 30% Haste gear just to break even on delay reduction, and you'll still be missing out on the benefits of the off-hand.

Don't get me wrong, I miss using shields myself but I just don't see it gaining ground beyond incredibly niche setups unless it's complimented with something else.

Unless of course you meant breaking the 80% hard cap, in which case Red Mage would simply become the new zerg machine swinging faster than a Monk with a Kraken Club and Hundred Fists up.

In terms of delay reduction, it's impossible to directly quantify a relation between Dual Wield and Haste because their effects are multiplicative.

If you're assuming 40% Haste (gear+spell), then the comparison looks like:

X = (0.70)(0.6) = 0.42, so it's the equivalent of adding 18% Haste to your previous 40%.

If you're assuming 0% Haste, then DW3 + Suppa is equivalent to 30% Haste.

The best case for Dual Wield from a pure delay standpoint is one where you have no Haste.

However, Dual Wield only increases your TP phase damage while leaving your WS frequency the same. Haste increases both TP phase damage and WS frequency. Therefore, if you had a choice between 30% Dual Wield + 72% Haste and 80% Haste (both of these cap delay reduction), 80% Haste would always be the stronger option.

Dual Wield starts stronger, but ends weaker. If you have access to zerg-tier buffs at all times, then Dual Wielding will actually decrease your overall damage (discounting offhand hits on WS and stats on offhand weaponry, of course).

[ManaKing]

I learned something today.

Ha me too!


@ GG

So basically if they wanted to get us using shields again they would have to make TP gain the issue, right?