What is RDM all about?

[Greatguardian]

and you'll be lying.

Hurr my White Mage uses Cure spells, obviously it is the same White Mage that appeared in Final Fantasy I and should have the same spells, mechanics, and playstyle.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Hurr my White Mage uses Cure spells, obviously it is the same White Mage that appeared in Final Fantasy I and should have the same spells, mechanics, and playstyle.

*Facepalm*

[Kitkat]

Interesting how this evolved from "what is rdm all about" to "what rdm should be all about based on past iterations."

I could say what rdm used to be all about, but after 75 cap raise it all changed. Now people are doing what ever they can to keep rdm afloat in some way given what SE has done by introducing enfeeble immunities en-mass, while introducing spell lines that only augment the rdm attributes and functions. The few spells they allowed rdm to have as a new enfeeble, they then slapped over to whm, blm, or even drk to use thus once again putting it off on the sidelines.

As other say, this pretty much translates to "Rdm is in a weird spot of no endgame utility" and it is mainly due to SE this time rather than the play-style of the player base. The only A+ Skill rdm has is kicked in the face due to coded immunities or constantly sees new spells being passed off to other jobs that have better utility. The ability to buff is better left to cor, whm, brd, or Sch....because of better utility reasons also. DD is lack luster in comparison to real DD jobs in both Melee or magical venues. So, with a job that once had significant endgame utility, rdm has now become the oddman out only called on if the more useful job isn't an option.

As for the side discussion of what rdm is vs what rdm was, both side have substantial merit in their arguments. Yes this is a later iteration of a franchise, but it is also the first one of the franchise that became an MMO. For the most part, it is vastly based off the past iterations of which the job class originated from, but rebalanced with the MMO mechanics in mind which are constantly under development and balancing. Unfortunately, rdm at this time is in the need for some sort of balancing to bring it back to life, but I don't expect to see this until sometime after lvl 99 cap and tier 3 merit groups are added.

[tyrantsyn]

As other say, this pretty much translates to "Rdm is in a weird spot of no endgame utility" and it is mainly due to SE this time rather than the play-style of the player base. The only A+ Skill rdm has is kicked in the face due to coded immunities or constantly sees new spells being passed off to other jobs that have better utility. The ability to buff is better left to cor, whm, brd, or Sch....because of better utility reasons also. DD is lack luster in comparison to real DD jobs in both Melee or magical venues. So, with a job that once had significant endgame utility, rdm has now become the oddman out only called on if the more useful job isn't an option.

I can't agree with you more here, RDM is suppose to be a number enfeebler in the game/or even one of the best. But in endgame content it's almost a useless skill. Case and point Celaeno in Dandruf wadi appears to be a wind base mob which I had absolutely no luck landing a paralyze spell on. Paralyze isn't some ground breaking spell. Yet even with Saboteur up I was resisted. I can appericate that at the beginning of the cap increase SE already felt RDM was too over powered. But they've basically held back so much from it at this point that it can't even hold its ground any more in it's A+ skill. I agree that I think were see improves in the new merit categories. But I think this is something that needs to be addressed now. I have a lot of time invested in this job class. And i'm not happy with how this aspect of the job has been held back.

[saevel]

Actually ... RDM's "end game" value in the past was .... drum roll please ...

Cure IV
Erase
-na
Haste
Refresh

With the situational use of our trademark Chain Spell Stun during zergs.

Enfeebles were a joke at 75, nearly every HNM was super resistant if not flatly immune. The ones they did land on had built in potency reduction. RDM was used' as a miniature white mage that could also nuke, haste, self-refresh and had lots of MP. Since they've bluntly said their not giving us Cure V we can rule out the miniature White Mage use which leaves players in an unfamiliar position. When a job was abused and pigeon holed as a WHM-1 for so long that people actually began to think that is what it was designed for, what do you do when it's no longer viable in that use? We've always had alternate functions, but so few people properly explored them that their considered fringe only.

[Greatguardian]

You either had a leadership that woefully underutilized your Red Mage at 75, or you were so terrible that they felt they could not fully utilize your Red Mage at 75. Either way, that is an absolutely pathetic synopsis of Red Mage's Endgame role.

[Seriha]

Interesting how this evolved from "what is rdm all about" to "what rdm should be all about based on past iterations."

It's hardly a new argument, though. The only thing that's really changed are the ideas that have come along with people hoping to make things better. Some of it's been inspired by things added to the game elsewhere. Others are just people genuinely being creative. Perhaps to our benefit, we're lacking the "RDM stole WHM's job!" stigma that was present back in the day and often used to refute improvements to RDM itself, but there are also people not interested in seeing history repeat itself.

[Kitkat]

Actually ... RDM's "end game" value in the past was .... drum roll please ...

Cure IV
Erase
-na
Haste
Refresh

With the situational use of our trademark Chain Spell Stun during zergs.

Enfeebles were a joke at 75, nearly every HNM was super resistant if not flatly immune. The ones they did land on had built in potency reduction. RDM was used' as a miniature white mage that could also nuke, haste, self-refresh and had lots of MP. Since they've bluntly said their not giving us Cure V we can rule out the miniature White Mage use which leaves players in an unfamiliar position. When a job was abused and pigeon holed as a WHM-1 for so long that people actually began to think that is what it was designed for, what do you do when it's no longer viable in that use? We've always had alternate functions, but so few people properly explored them that their considered fringe only.

Can't say I ever saw my rdm this under utilized when it came to anything endgame; Dynamis, limbus, kings, KS99, salvage, and Ein usually resulted in needing to be crowd control/debuffer/buffer/healer/nuker and being half-arsed at it usually resulted in needless deaths or longer than required fights.

It's hardly a new argument, though. The only thing that's really changed are the ideas that have come along with people hoping to make things better. Some of it's been inspired by things added to the game elsewhere. Others are just people genuinely being creative. Perhaps to our benefit, we're lacking the "RDM stole WHM's job!" stigma that was present back in the day and often used to refute improvements to RDM itself, but there are also people not interested in seeing history repeat itself.

Well, not saying it is a bad thing necessarily so much as pointing out that it mutated from a topic where the OP just wanted to know what is expected of the job, to what the job needs/should be. Already plenty of topics filled with that already.

[saevel]

Can't say I ever saw my rdm this under utilized when it came to anything endgame; Dynamis, limbus, kings, KS99, salvage, and Ein usually resulted in needing to be crowd control/debuffer/buffer/healer/nuker and being half-arsed at it usually resulted in needless deaths or longer than required fights.



Well, not saying it is a bad thing necessarily so much as pointing out that it mutated from a topic where the OP just wanted to know what is expected of the job, to what the job needs/should be. Already plenty of topics filled with that already.

Your trying to cheer lead, doesn't work too well. Crowd control is a joke..
RDM/BLM: casts Sleepga ..., YAY!!
BLM: casts Sleepge II <.<
RDM/BLM: .... /cry

Debuff .... wtf over? We've gone through this a thousand times now, enfeebleing didn't mean anything at "end game" back in 75 after 2006. All the HNM's were either super resistant or had direct potency reductions, it was part of SE's master plan to refuse RDM the ability to solo anything. Your greatest hope was Slow and Dia.

Salvage ... yeah ... naked for most of the run except a light staff doing cure IV -> cure IV -> Haste -> Cure IV on the monks.

Ein ... same as Dyna except things don't sleep long and build resistance fast. Ein was just a colibri merit PT zerg fest with us doing the exact same things, Cure IV -> Haste -> Cure IV -> Cure IV -> repeat.

So .. yeah .. that's about the sum of "end game". There is a reason RDM earned the nickname "Pink mage". The most you could hope for was post-WoTG RDM/SCH in DA mode for decent nukes. Tier III was still weak compared to IV's but you could chain them together. You suffered mostly from accuracy due to a C in elemental magic, /SCH helped that a bit.

So please continue insulting me like you actually know what your doing.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Dynamis: Blms used Sleepga II except for emergency? Blm wasn't even needed for killing statues unless you did timed nuke strategy.

To most of them and by most you mean grav/bind/para... Odin is the only NM I can think of offhand who resisted Slow II on a regular. Blind was essentially useless but kept landing on a surprising number of NMs for me...


Salvage: Stopped reading after you only used mnks.