What is RDM all about?

[Crimson_Slasher]

Actually in FF3 sch can cast up to lv 3 magic, but i agree, it also had an item potency boost (50%? Or double, dont recall.) But it still was a double-sided mage i think, unless it was just lv 3 white magic

[saevel]

Actually in FF3 sch can cast up to lv 3 magic, but i agree, it also had an item potency boost (50%? Or double, dont recall.) But it still was a double-sided mage i think, unless it was just lv 3 white magic

No item potency boost that I can remember, I think your thinking of chemist. SCH only had Peep for checking stats until the remake, then SE gave them up to level 3 magic. As I never used the job much I completely forgot they remade them with a little magic. Still SCH in the older games was a throwaway job used for a specific story event, in FFXI it's master of both Black and White magic and use's abilities to modify and change those magic. In AD&D we called it metamagic. Of course SE has to be a prick and lock a bunch of spells out of being accessionable. ALL enhancing magic should be accessionable no matter what.

Honestly RDM is in a good position, it just needs a couple of mechanical fix's to work. Put it on the light melee gear again (DNC / BLU / NIN stuff), unlock the EX WS's, stop making NM's resistant / immune to enfeebles, change tier 2 merits into "enhances" categories and release them as lv 75 venderable scrolls. Now create Tier III's of the current enfeebles and create stat specific reduction enfeebles. *Bam* job fixed. SE has just pretty much stated it has no intention of allowing SCH or RDM to main heal, SCH got the super regen idea I had wanted for RDM so obviously SE isn't going in that direction for us. Not much else we can do, SE doesn't want us as party support then we won't be party support.

[Solonuke]

A scholar from FF3 in this game would be a scholar that wielded a book and a shield that knew only to cast cure II and stone II with an ability that checks a monster's weakness every 30th second.

[Seriha]

SCH wound up mish-mashing Geomancer and Sage, really. Not exactly the end of the world unless someone out there was really craving an axe-wielding nuker (Though I guess that'd make Farsha more appealing?). Actual Geomancer mechanics would be a nightmare in FFXI as they'd then have to go through and map all standing areas with location mechanic, and frankly, how often are you going to find water-based mobs in a lightning-friendly environment?

Far as RDM goes in its multiple iterations, it's 1 part Warrior, 1 part White Mage, 1 part Black Mage. Anything built on that is gravy like enhancing and enfeebling (You know, SE starting to be imaginative 'n all...). Take away the melee and you get Sage or XI's SCH. Take away the Black Mage and you get Paladin. Take away the White Mage and you get Dark Knight. It's a job meant to work hand-in-hand with all of those parts. I used the baseball analogy because its core concept of a ball being pitched to a batter who tries to hit it and thus round the bases without striking/tagged out is what makes it baseball. It then proceeds to vary in the speed and type of pitching, distance between bases, and how big the field is. When you start changing stuff to be more broad like "guy with a stick hits something" then you start stepping into hockey, polo, tennis, lacrosse, and whatever variant most definitely not baseball.

Unfortunately, FFXI hasn't been very friendly toward RDM's hybrid needs, and applying that word doesn't mean it can't carry its own specialty in the process. And to imply it can't be done is again folly and demonstrative of your own lacking imagination.

[Cowardlybabooon]

Doomguardian said it all on the first page. Nothing else to be said lol.

[Glamdring]

one ray of hope if you still want to rdm, the new end-game content is moving away from aby, rdm may gain relevance again as it comes out. Refresh 2 is awesome when there is no atma, etc. on the table, other stuff is the same. current design hints seem to be that you'll level in aby (and maybe skill), but do your new (90+) end-game elsewhere, seemingly voidwatch and WoE if they keep expanding those. if relic armor +2 happens dynamis may turn into something big again. Note, this is all an "if"; it's possible rdm may turn back into as strong a role as it was in the bird-camp meripo days or may stay as excluded as it is now in todays bandwagon environment, can't really say. The only thing certain, some job will gain ascendancy, other jobs will be marginalized. It's just the way things have worked since the game was made.

[Kitkat]

Interesting how this evolved from "what is rdm all about" to "what rdm should be all about based on past iterations."

I could say what rdm used to be all about, but after 75 cap raise it all changed. Now people are doing what ever they can to keep rdm afloat in some way given what SE has done by introducing enfeeble immunities en-mass, while introducing spell lines that only augment the rdm attributes and functions. The few spells they allowed rdm to have as a new enfeeble, they then slapped over to whm, blm, or even drk to use thus once again putting it off on the sidelines.

As other say, this pretty much translates to "Rdm is in a weird spot of no endgame utility" and it is mainly due to SE this time rather than the play-style of the player base. The only A+ Skill rdm has is kicked in the face due to coded immunities or constantly sees new spells being passed off to other jobs that have better utility. The ability to buff is better left to cor, whm, brd, or Sch....because of better utility reasons also. DD is lack luster in comparison to real DD jobs in both Melee or magical venues. So, with a job that once had significant endgame utility, rdm has now become the oddman out only called on if the more useful job isn't an option.

As for the side discussion of what rdm is vs what rdm was, both side have substantial merit in their arguments. Yes this is a later iteration of a franchise, but it is also the first one of the franchise that became an MMO. For the most part, it is vastly based off the past iterations of which the job class originated from, but rebalanced with the MMO mechanics in mind which are constantly under development and balancing. Unfortunately, rdm at this time is in the need for some sort of balancing to bring it back to life, but I don't expect to see this until sometime after lvl 99 cap and tier 3 merit groups are added.

[tyrantsyn]

As other say, this pretty much translates to "Rdm is in a weird spot of no endgame utility" and it is mainly due to SE this time rather than the play-style of the player base. The only A+ Skill rdm has is kicked in the face due to coded immunities or constantly sees new spells being passed off to other jobs that have better utility. The ability to buff is better left to cor, whm, brd, or Sch....because of better utility reasons also. DD is lack luster in comparison to real DD jobs in both Melee or magical venues. So, with a job that once had significant endgame utility, rdm has now become the oddman out only called on if the more useful job isn't an option.

I can't agree with you more here, RDM is suppose to be a number enfeebler in the game/or even one of the best. But in endgame content it's almost a useless skill. Case and point Celaeno in Dandruf wadi appears to be a wind base mob which I had absolutely no luck landing a paralyze spell on. Paralyze isn't some ground breaking spell. Yet even with Saboteur up I was resisted. I can appericate that at the beginning of the cap increase SE already felt RDM was too over powered. But they've basically held back so much from it at this point that it can't even hold its ground any more in it's A+ skill. I agree that I think were see improves in the new merit categories. But I think this is something that needs to be addressed now. I have a lot of time invested in this job class. And i'm not happy with how this aspect of the job has been held back.

[saevel]

Actually ... RDM's "end game" value in the past was .... drum roll please ...

Cure IV
Erase
-na
Haste
Refresh

With the situational use of our trademark Chain Spell Stun during zergs.

Enfeebles were a joke at 75, nearly every HNM was super resistant if not flatly immune. The ones they did land on had built in potency reduction. RDM was used' as a miniature white mage that could also nuke, haste, self-refresh and had lots of MP. Since they've bluntly said their not giving us Cure V we can rule out the miniature White Mage use which leaves players in an unfamiliar position. When a job was abused and pigeon holed as a WHM-1 for so long that people actually began to think that is what it was designed for, what do you do when it's no longer viable in that use? We've always had alternate functions, but so few people properly explored them that their considered fringe only.

[Kitkat]

Actually ... RDM's "end game" value in the past was .... drum roll please ...

Cure IV
Erase
-na
Haste
Refresh

With the situational use of our trademark Chain Spell Stun during zergs.

Enfeebles were a joke at 75, nearly every HNM was super resistant if not flatly immune. The ones they did land on had built in potency reduction. RDM was used' as a miniature white mage that could also nuke, haste, self-refresh and had lots of MP. Since they've bluntly said their not giving us Cure V we can rule out the miniature White Mage use which leaves players in an unfamiliar position. When a job was abused and pigeon holed as a WHM-1 for so long that people actually began to think that is what it was designed for, what do you do when it's no longer viable in that use? We've always had alternate functions, but so few people properly explored them that their considered fringe only.

Can't say I ever saw my rdm this under utilized when it came to anything endgame; Dynamis, limbus, kings, KS99, salvage, and Ein usually resulted in needing to be crowd control/debuffer/buffer/healer/nuker and being half-arsed at it usually resulted in needless deaths or longer than required fights.

It's hardly a new argument, though. The only thing that's really changed are the ideas that have come along with people hoping to make things better. Some of it's been inspired by things added to the game elsewhere. Others are just people genuinely being creative. Perhaps to our benefit, we're lacking the "RDM stole WHM's job!" stigma that was present back in the day and often used to refute improvements to RDM itself, but there are also people not interested in seeing history repeat itself.

Well, not saying it is a bad thing necessarily so much as pointing out that it mutated from a topic where the OP just wanted to know what is expected of the job, to what the job needs/should be. Already plenty of topics filled with that already.