Add New Jobs to Relic Weapons - Past Due for an Explanation

[Greatguardian]

While I don't support his argument at all, the difference here is that when you decided to get a Verethragna, you already knew it would have been useable on PUP. It's simply a matter of opinion. SE violated that principle on several occasions (Nashira/Homam gear was mentioned), the only question is where to draw the line, and in my opinion there is no line. This should not be an excuse not to add the jobs.

Oh, okay.

I only have MNK unlocked. I want a 50% refund on the man-hours it took to get my Verethragna.

I understand where you're trying to come from, but I feel like this tripe can go both ways. If it is my responsibility to create a new Ultimate weapon for each job to keep them at a 1:1 ratio, then it should follow that I should get a refund on my efforts when using a 2-job weapon on 1 job. Obviously this is ridiculous, but so is the notion that jobs can't be added to relics because "people need to work more".

In the end, who gives a crap if they increase the functional value of some relics by adding jobs to them? The only one worth half a shit in this context is Mandau, and even then who really cares? Boo hoo, Dancer can do things that Thief can do? Corsair can do things that Ranger can do, too. That line of reasoning is no less petty than the DRK conniption fit that was had when it was announced that Automatons would get Dread Spikes.

Arguing over this bullshit is like arguing over whether or not Koga Tekko should get their nighttime restriction removed. It's a random, convenient buff that doesn't really do anything at all aside from save 1 inventory space. Key word: Convenience. Who gets hurt when Ninjas can wear Koga Tekko during the day? No one. Who gets hurt when BLU can wear Excal? No one. When COR can wear Annihilator? No one. When DNC can wear Mandau? No one. Really. No one. The damn near insignificant difference between Mandau and Twashtar is not going to make or break Thief's role in the game.

SCH doesn't even have the combat skill to wield the most useless, pathetic Relic in the game worth a damn so no one really gives a shit if they get Claustrum either.

[Atomic_Skull]

The damn near insignificant difference between Mandau and Twashtar is not going to make or break Thief's role in the game.

It's not about which is better it's about SE buffing DNC to ridiculous levels by giving them things THFs have been asking for for years while letting THF languish, then taking things from THF and giving them to dancer in a better form on top of that.

And that is why career THF's rage at the idea of giving Mandau, the highest symbol of a THF's dedication to the job, to DNC.

You know how fans of real horror films hate Twilight? That's how career THF's feel about DNC.

[Kimble]

What exactly did they give to dnc that thf have been asking for?

[Zagen]

You know how fans of real horror films hate Twilight? That's how career THF's feel about DNC.

I'm assuming you're implying Twilight saga/series is supposed to be horror, if you are then you're the first person I've ever seen make that connection. If you aren't implying that then why single out horror film lovers?

[cidbahamut]

It's not about which is better it's about SE buffing DNC to ridiculous levels by giving them things THFs have been asking for for years while letting THF languish, then taking things from THF and giving them to dancer in a better form on top of that.

And that is why career THF's rage at the idea of giving Mandau, the highest symbol of a THF's dedication to the job, to DNC.

You know how fans of real horror films hate Twilight? That's how career THF's feel about DNC.

That's a terrible analogy and the complaint you outline is one of job design, not one of gear availability. Get over it and focus your vindictiveness more constructively.

[Arcon]

What exactly did they give to dnc that thf have been asking for?

Forced critical hit (Sneak Attack), forced triple attack (Assassin's Charge), Subtle Blow bonus, Accuracy Bonus, high Evasion Bonus, higher tiers of Dual Wield, which allows DNC subs other than NIN to DD, while THF still has to use it for nothing else but increasing a trait they already have themselves. I probably missed something.

Edit:

That's a terrible analogy and the complaint you outline is one of job design, not one of gear availability. Get over it and focus your vindictiveness more constructively.

He didn't complain, he just explained why THFs feel as they do, and he's right. And he's also right about why THF feel that way about Mandau, because it's one of the extremely few edges THF has over DNC. Not that it changes anything about the job design, but that's how it is.

[Kimble]

Forced critical hit (Sneak Attack), forced triple attack (Assassin's Charge), Subtle Blow bonus, Accuracy Bonus, high Evasion Bonus, higher tiers of Dual Wield, which allows DNC subs other than NIN to DD, while THF still has to use it for nothing else but increasing a trait they already have themselves. I probably missed something.

So, you mean they gave things to DNC that THF already had, not, they give things to DNC that THFs have been asking for.

THF has higher Evasion then DNC still. DNCs TA is nothing to really talk about and a THF can use SA more then a DNC can. (Granted DNC can do it from the front, THF can as well with Bully)

[Arcon]

So, you mean they gave things to DNC that THF already had, not, they give things to DNC that THFs have been asking for.

No, I meant both. Only Sneak Attack, Triple Attack and Evasion Bonus were things THF already had. The rest was stuff THF wanted (Accuracy Bonus, Subtle Blow, Dual Wield).

[Greatguardian]

It's not about which is better it's about SE buffing DNC to ridiculous levels by giving them things THFs have been asking for for years while letting THF languish, then taking things from THF and giving them to dancer in a better form on top of that.

And that is why career THF's rage at the idea of giving Mandau, the highest symbol of a THF's dedication to the job, to DNC.

You know how fans of real horror films hate Twilight? That's how career THF's feel about DNC.

Oh. So bringing Dancer up from broken, useless pile of crap to respectable DD is bad because it shares traits that already work well on the other dagger-wielding job? That's astounding.

There's a whole can of worms one could open by saying "Don't fix what ain't broke", because we both know that Thief could be in a better place right now, but I don't see anything wrong with SE fixing the most terrible, languishing jobs first. Puppetmaster is in the middle of a huge AI/automaton overhaul, too. Corsair received a massive XI Roll buff, and Miser's/Tacticians/Wildfire gave it a legitimate reason to exist next to Bard. Blue mage received HNM spells, and Scholar is being reworked.

Sure, the bottom of the pyramid may be closer to the top now, but that's only because they've been overhauled while the top of the pyramid hasn't. I have little doubt that Thief will receive the love it needs. Its need simply isn't as great as the famously defunct jobs that the Devs are working with right now.

Inb4 Mellowy and/or no one cares about Summoner people.

[Juri_Licious]

Pretty much the arguments in this thread have been rather lame and irrelevant.

"These jobs wern't out at the time so they must not be able to use the weapon, make new weapons for them!"

This isn't Mythic weapons, multiple jobs can already use the weapons. What game have you ever played when adding new classes these new classes couldn't use a weapon simply cause they were a new class? It didn't work this way in Phantasy Star games another Japanese MMO.

Relic weapons have always been for multiple jobs, so don't act like they're Mythic weapons. We don't need job specific Relics when Mythics handle this.

"THF is absolute dog pile crap, why do I play this game when DNC is my mortal enemy and i'm absolutely jealous, stunned yet appalled that my inferior THF is the worst thing in this game and does 0 damage and doesn't get invited over DNC! Don't give them Mandau, i'll feel like I heal the enemies every time I swing!"

This is absurd on so many levels. You are very biased when it comes to this because you have no objection when it comes to other jobs using Relic weapons but DNC using the Mandau is the most horrible thing in the world.

Once again, THF gets invited to parties all the time. You stated before they don't, if you really think THF doesn't get invited to parties than you must not actually be playing the game at all and you bought your account with the Mandau on it. Maybe that's why you don't put your actual character name on the forums who knows?

Giving DNC the Mandau isn't going to change how THF gets into parties. No one's going to say "SOEGJOSEJG DNC MANDAU! GET DA FAWK OUTTA HERE THIEF!" Just not going to happen. This won't change anything just make players a little more happy and you bitter for no apparent reason.