[dev1035] Are PUPs the only loved ones?

[Kimble]

Set up that I use that does very well.

PLD, RDM, WHM, WHM, BRD, SMN
BLM, BLM, BLM, BLU, RNG, DD (DRG, PUP, WAR, etc)
COR, WAR, SAM, DRK, MNK, NIN

on Zilart will add a 2nd PLD and drop a DD and have a WHM move to DD party if needed.

SCH is generally useless imo. Sure they have Helix but that is only one spell per the element. Next update, they wont even have that. Sure they can help proc 2-4 on regular nukes but so can the RDM while having all their own procs as well (dia 3, bio 3, blind 2, para 2, slow 2) as well as refreshing, etc.

Ive found it a lot easier to focus on bring a spread of DD so its easier to proc blue since they will be able to keep their main weapons on, proc fast, and be able to keep it on during the blitz.

As far as mages procing. With fanatics/monarchs and using regain atma, its not that hard for them to run and and WS when they are ready to proc. Honestly, as long as you can proc blue a lot, it shouldnt matter if you have all red procs covered as zering during stagger should cap that for you anyways. Also makes harder nms. T3 go down much faster. Hell that set up takes out the t4s from last voidwatch in 3-4 minutes while having capped lights.

[Leonlionheart]

SCH has more procs than RDM, including JA procs as long as it subs whm or rdm. It's also a better healer and nuker when it needs to be. Regain, and other unique buffs are also very useful in VW. Not often does the healing party ever have MP problems unless you simply SUCK at proccing, so refresh is utterly moot.

Also, you're using 1 PLD too many (possibly 2 if you put 2 in your party) unless your DDs don't have PDT MDT sets. Proc enough and a WAR or MNK would be so much more worthwhile. (Have a mage or someone with a shield sub PLD for PLD JA if you must). There are fights where you need them, like Voidwrought or Zilart (for the adds) but other than that there's no need.

[Glamdring]

You'd be wrong. PUP has no purpose in the game. You can use it to solo DC monsters, but what can't you use to solo DC monsters?

Voidwatch? One shade below totally worthless. Oh yay, a damage source that can occasionally proc stuff.
XPing? Not an event anymore. If you don't get all the xp you need just from doing other stuff, you're leveling a new job or doin' it wrong.
Dynamis? No JA procs worth talking about, and no TH.
Abyssea? Can't even proc well in Blunt, let alone magical WSs or magic.
Salvage? Anything + Anything can duo almost every zone. PUP has no particular advantages.
WoE? Puppet recast is too long to be relevant as a pet job. As a melee it has all the same problems as every other melee.

It's worthless. I don't know how I could possibly design an event where it's not worthless.

if you think pup is worthless in WoE you're not playing it right. Rng and BLM do very nice damage, just let the pet do the work and you don't need to Zombie on the master, and we can recall pet at 1 minute intervals, it's not weakend after death, just low on HP. With Whm finally getting a bit smarter we can finally cure decently. Go Pup/war or /dnc to Dynamis with whm or blm pups, proc JA from sub, WS from you and you may magic proc or else heal pt members. Use against any mob that charms (since pets are immune), and unlike bst you have more options than just melee damage and the occasional TP move. Take it to aby, use blm or rdm auto now and build azure and pearl solo easily, then switch to VE or SS and go nuts on damage or use rdm or whm to heal and solo. Use in voidwatch much the same as in Dynamis. Salvage auto owns versus the boss or imps, especially if everyone else will keep their distance on the charmers (although good luck being on the priority list for necessary cells). Take any frame out to GoV, they're all good there.

In fact, the only thing they aren't useful for is spamming AoE.

Pup could always do all that, we do it MUCH better now.

[Kimble]

SCH has more procs than RDM, including JA procs as long as it subs whm or rdm. It's also a better healer and nuker when it needs to be. Regain, and other unique buffs are also very useful in VW. Not often does the healing party ever have MP problems unless you simply SUCK at proccing, so refresh is utterly moot.

Also, you're using 1 PLD too many (possibly 2 if you put 2 in your party) unless your DDs don't have PDT MDT sets. Proc enough and a WAR or MNK would be so much more worthwhile. (Have a mage or someone with a shield sub PLD for PLD JA if you must). There are fights where you need them, like Voidwrought or Zilart (for the adds) but other than that there's no need.

SCH's Regain is pretty moot as well with Monarch's drink. What other "unique" buffs? the enmity down spell is worthless with gnotics(sp) drink. As of now, their JA proc is not much of a point since its glitched and doesn't proc half the time even when landing.

Zilart will need 2 PLDS usually. One to hold adds.

[Leonlionheart]

SCH's Regain is pretty moot as well with Monarch's drink. What other "unique" buffs? the enmity down spell is worthless with gnotics(sp) drink. As of now, their JA proc is not much of a point since its glitched and doesn't proc half the time even when landing.

Zilart will need 2 PLDS usually. One to hold adds.

Even with just 1 tick regain, better than what RDM is doing. Too bad Temper is completely worthless, or RDM may have had a chance. (More magic procs says hi)

Only T3 zilart fight that really needs 2 PLDs is Aelo. I've tanked, along with another WAR or MNK, both Qilin and Uptala successfully.

[Kimble]

Its risky. And I don't believe you are doing it with 100% efficiency if doing that that way.

And no, the regain is useless from SCH. It doesn't stack with Monarchs drink and Monarchs drink is stronger Regain so it does nothing.

After next update, RDM will be better than SCH. I've done tons of Voidwatch and have done way better with a RDM over a SCH. On fights where healing matters a lot (aoe damage) the SCH is still meh on AOE healing and better to have a WHM do it.

[Leonlionheart]

"Risky" even though I've seen PLDs wipe to uptala just as easily as any DD

Qilin you could probably do with your eyes closed

[Malamasala]

This makes me wonder what the spirits should do better if they are ever improved. If Spirits were made similarly competent to the Black Mage and White Mage puppets, how much would it really add to summoner?

You have to view spirits like avatar's favor. It does in no way enhance your BP:Rage spam and damage output, but it opens up new ways to support an alliance.

A functional Light Spirit would allow you to at dire situations call it out and basically add a WHM to the alliance. Bringing a WHM might have been overkill to start with, but bad luck made it a necessity. SMN simply covered it. (Or PUP, if you wanted to use that as a backup WHM solution).

A functional Light Spirit also allows you to change sub. If you can cure yourself, you can sub for example SAM and meditate TP to fill in WS triggers in VW. Or you can trigger NMs in Abyssea. Or you can simply refill MP with Myrkr if you happen to have that. I tend to sub WHM for cure IV. If I had Cure V from a trusty Light Spirit, I'd sub SCH to help nuke trigger on VW.

Other spirits have much less use. A split casting timer update like for PUP would allow them to be used as debuffers and DoTers, instead of Avatar spike damage. An obvious use would be triggers of course. But else it is mainly to avoid amnesia on an avatar, while making yourself vulnerable to silence on a spirit.

Another way to view spirits and avatars, are that avatars are for bosses and spirits are for normal mobs. After all, if a monster dies in 10 seconds, then a spirit casting nukes every 20 seconds is better than an avatar who does BPs every 45 seconds. Spirits are not meant to replace Avatars, just fill in those gaps the job has where you are just standing there watching all the BLMs, WARs etc kill monster after monster while your BP timer is ticking down.

(Best would be if spirits had -ga magic, but I doubt that would ever happen)

And the most important question of all. Why did I delay a much needed trip to the bathroom to type this post?

Maybe you were interested in an answer to your questions?

[Kimble]

"Risky" even though I've seen PLDs wipe to uptala just as easily as any DD

Qilin you could probably do with your eyes closed

Is it impossible? No. but for it to work well would mean you are procing pretty quickly to keep filling temp items.

[Moink]

You have to view spirits like avatar's favor. It does in no way enhance your BP:Rage spam and damage output, but it opens up new ways to support an alliance.

A functional Light Spirit would allow you to at dire situations call it out and basically add a WHM to the alliance. Bringing a WHM might have been overkill to start with, but bad luck made it a necessity. SMN simply covered it. (Or PUP, if you wanted to use that as a backup WHM solution).

A functional Light Spirit also allows you to change sub. If you can cure yourself, you can sub for example SAM and meditate TP to fill in WS triggers in VW. Or you can trigger NMs in Abyssea. Or you can simply refill MP with Myrkr if you happen to have that. I tend to sub WHM for cure IV. If I had Cure V from a trusty Light Spirit, I'd sub SCH to help nuke trigger on VW.

Other spirits have much less use. A split casting timer update like for PUP would allow them to be used as debuffers and DoTers, instead of Avatar spike damage. An obvious use would be triggers of course. But else it is mainly to avoid amnesia on an avatar, while making yourself vulnerable to silence on a spirit.

Another way to view spirits and avatars, are that avatars are for bosses and spirits are for normal mobs. After all, if a monster dies in 10 seconds, then a spirit casting nukes every 20 seconds is better than an avatar who does BPs every 45 seconds. Spirits are not meant to replace Avatars, just fill in those gaps the job has where you are just standing there watching all the BLMs, WARs etc kill monster after monster while your BP timer is ticking down.

(Best would be if spirits had -ga magic, but I doubt that would ever happen)



Maybe you were interested in an answer to your questions?

Woooooooow, I've lost all hope with thinking like that...