[dev1035] Are PUPs the only loved ones?

[Soranika]

Spirits don't need to be relevant, they were basically placeholders until RoZ was added and the Avatars were introduced. They need about as much updating as low level BLU spells and nukes.

Maybe so. I still find relevance in voidwatch, using them to help proc elemental magic if we're low on blms and some stuff don't land. Hugely a luck factor in there, but they've been proven to work.

[Shotaro1]

I see no problem with smn really, i think its good as is. Smn along with bst dominates things like WoE. They are pretty much the ones carrying the PC's to victory (like the big dragon flux forget what number, PC's bite it so easily from Vermillion Wind, and others, pets take it in stride) with thier amazing curing of pets (bst), and ability to just poop out a new pet in a matter of seconds (smn). Pup cannot do that, at least NOT as well.

Its time for other pet jobs to shine imo, or get some kind of spot in the light.

[Mizuharu]

Oh, and another thing.

Avatars have a native Physical Damage Taken -50%; 52~% with Stout Servant and no gear.


And yes, I'm aware you're talking for Titan's Favor being changed from DEF+ to DMG taken-. But Automatons only have PDT-5% just from stout servant and no gear. And with gear (not counting any add-on augmented gear), we can get a whomping PDT-5% and DMG taken -2%.

Players that will be tanking and will be the ones that benefit the most from the favor can easily get damage taken- gear. And Earthen Armor on top of all that to lower damage even further should an attack be lethal.

Please, for the love of God, don't complain about Puppetmasters getting a pet update that matters after so long. SMN isn't broken. Well... Maybe for that Phalanx bit from Diabolos and Sleepga. But Spirits are considered useless among summoners for anything that isn't what I listed before in my previous post. PUPs actually NEED this to function properly as a Solo job/Party job. This is going to open quite a few doors for PUP; doors that SMN already has access to.

[Byrth]

You'd be wrong. PUP has no purpose in the game. You can use it to solo DC monsters, but what can't you use to solo DC monsters?

Voidwatch? One shade below totally worthless. Oh yay, a damage source that can occasionally proc stuff.
XPing? Not an event anymore. If you don't get all the xp you need just from doing other stuff, you're leveling a new job or doin' it wrong.
Dynamis? No JA procs worth talking about, and no TH.
Abyssea? Can't even proc well in Blunt, let alone magical WSs or magic.
Salvage? Anything + Anything can duo almost every zone. PUP has no particular advantages.
WoE? Puppet recast is too long to be relevant as a pet job. As a melee it has all the same problems as every other melee.

It's worthless. I don't know how I could possibly design an event where it's not worthless.

[Mizuharu]

Voidwatch? One shade below totally worthless. Oh yay, a damage source that can occasionally proc stuff.

Isn't that the case with every job? >.> Well, granted you NEED at least one blm for procing. Three-ish for killing it. But the DDs are just there to proc also along with damage. And PUP can still proc some while doing damage (ya know, like a RNG is there to do damage and then Archery WSs when it pops up.(Leave Marksmanship to the COR. And you will have a COR. Regain rolls are a must for WS procing. /rant))
The Automaton BLM frame gets higher numbers per nuke than a BLM(without a set proc.) And Deactivate wipes the Automaton off the hate list completely. I think it's a good bonus source of hateless damage.

XPing? Not an event anymore. If you don't get all the xp you need just from doing other stuff, you're leveling a new job or doin' it wrong.

Agreed.

Dynamis? No JA procs worth talking about, and no TH.

Do what everyone else does for JA procs; sub DNC.

Abyssea? Can't even proc well in Blunt, let alone magical WSs or magic.

While it's true PUP can't proc magic, a PUP/WAR can do all h2h (save for Asuran Fists), all club (save for Hexa/Black Halo), and (with some staff merits + head gear) can do

Red Lotus Blade (Feast of Swords sword for all jobs)
Seraph Blade (^)
Seraph Strike
Earth Crusher
Sunburst
Raiden Thrust (Halloween Polearm)
Energy Drain
Cyclone

Only missing Jinpu/Koki, Ei, Shadow of Death, and Freezebite.

Salvage? Anything + Anything can duo almost every zone. PUP has no particular advantages.

While anything + rdm/whm/sch can duo "almost" everything, you need a third person anyway to even get access in. PUP/NIN with a proper eva set up is a hell of an evasion tank. And the automaton adds another source of damage.

WoE? Puppet recast is too long to be relevant as a pet job. As a melee it has all the same problems as every other melee.

Again, while it is a 1min wait time, it's the same time cooldown as a SMN's blood pacts (unless they actually use Blood Pact - gear like they're SUPPOSE TO. (I cry for the SMNs now a days fulltiming the same gear ; ; )) PUP does decent in most fluxes. I get about ~9k just Deploy/Deactivate and subbing sch to cure people.

It's worthless. I don't know how I could possibly design an event where it's not worthless.

It's only as worthless as the player wants it to be. Find some career pups instead of all the abyssea burn ones.

[Glamdring]

You'd be wrong. PUP has no purpose in the game. You can use it to solo DC monsters, but what can't you use to solo DC monsters?

Voidwatch? One shade below totally worthless. Oh yay, a damage source that can occasionally proc stuff.
XPing? Not an event anymore. If you don't get all the xp you need just from doing other stuff, you're leveling a new job or doin' it wrong.
Dynamis? No JA procs worth talking about, and no TH.
Abyssea? Can't even proc well in Blunt, let alone magical WSs or magic.
Salvage? Anything + Anything can duo almost every zone. PUP has no particular advantages.
WoE? Puppet recast is too long to be relevant as a pet job. As a melee it has all the same problems as every other melee.

It's worthless. I don't know how I could possibly design an event where it's not worthless.

if you think pup is worthless in WoE you're not playing it right. Rng and BLM do very nice damage, just let the pet do the work and you don't need to Zombie on the master, and we can recall pet at 1 minute intervals, it's not weakend after death, just low on HP. With Whm finally getting a bit smarter we can finally cure decently. Go Pup/war or /dnc to Dynamis with whm or blm pups, proc JA from sub, WS from you and you may magic proc or else heal pt members. Use against any mob that charms (since pets are immune), and unlike bst you have more options than just melee damage and the occasional TP move. Take it to aby, use blm or rdm auto now and build azure and pearl solo easily, then switch to VE or SS and go nuts on damage or use rdm or whm to heal and solo. Use in voidwatch much the same as in Dynamis. Salvage auto owns versus the boss or imps, especially if everyone else will keep their distance on the charmers (although good luck being on the priority list for necessary cells). Take any frame out to GoV, they're all good there.

In fact, the only thing they aren't useful for is spamming AoE.

Pup could always do all that, we do it MUCH better now.

[Darkvalkyr]

I see nothing in OP about spirits beyond the last; why the sudden talk about Spirits?

[hiko]

I see nothing in OP about spirits beyond the last; why the sudden talk about Spirits?

really?

I was reading about how it seemed like you were fixing everything with PUP in a single update and thought it sounded very wonderful. I could however not avoid noticing how a lot of the changes are stuff that are very closely connected to SMN.

Do you have similar plans for Summoner? (I know you supposedly have surveyed us about ward improvements, but it would be nice to know how much you intend on fixing, seeing as you are fixing everything on PUP)




Like are you going to fix Titan's favor to give damage reduction instead of defense, just how you changed the Armor Plating attachments effects?

Are you going to raise the amount of damage reduction on Nocturnal Shield?

Are you going to increase the priority of sleepga from Shiva since it is 1.5 min (sleepga 2) duration, and yet you can't overwrite sleepga 1 (1 min duration)?

Are you going to split up and improve healing AI for Light Spirit?

Are you going to add new spells to Spirits? (Since apparently it is still only Light Spirit getting new nukes and nothing else)


I'm quite envious at the amount of "fixes" going towards PUP right now. I've always said "fixes" are the only thing SMN needs, and yet all we get is new content. Never do we seem to get adjustments that make our old abilities useful.

Do to wards what you did to attachments, and do to spirits what you did to frames, and I believe you might have rejuvenated SMN into a brand new job.

totally nothing about spirits

[Darkvalkyr]

really?



totally nothing about spirits

I said 'except the last'.

Shoulda added bit. But yeah.

Majority of topic is disproportionately talking about that last part.

[Greatguardian]

I have a well-geared, career PUP in my Voidwatch shell. I've known him for half a decade, cool guy.

He comes on his recently Abyssea-burned SCH to all of our runs because PUP is pretty much useless. It's straight up impossible to force the puppet to use really weak weaponskills for procs, so it's far worse in practice than it is on paper. It can't handle every H2H proc, and the rest of its weapons are pretty fail tier, so we're better off just bringing a Mnk to cover everything PUP can do and then some.

I don't think you realize that doing damage is a secondary, hell even tertiary concern these days. PUP can certainly DD with the rest of the big boys, no one's denying that. Hell, so can Dragoon in Abyssea. That doesn't make Dragoon worth a crap in Abyssea. That simply doesn't make it useful when the focus of the game has shifted away from ZERGZERGZERGZERGZERG REPEAT.

Ironically, PUP as it is now would have been a lot more useful 4 years ago.