Why Cant Final fantasy 11 get the same treatment?

[FrankReynolds]

When a new player looks into an MMO that has over 8 years of content and 500k players they see 8 years of content to catch up on to be on par with those players and the odds of newer players joining slim for the same reason.

If there are 50k veteran players or 500k, doesn't change the fact that EVERYONE on that game has more experience than the guy who is just starting. He still has to do the same crap to get to where they are.

When a new player sees an MMO with 1-2 years of age and what 50k players? They see something more attainable in the 14 compared to 11.

Really?...... cuz when I see a MMORPG that is 1-2 years old and only has 50k subscribers, I think that the game probably is going to be canceled before I even get to make any significant progress in it. When I see one that is 10 years old and has several hundred thousand players I expect that game to have a lot to offer.

[Zagen]

If there are 50k veteran players or 500k, doesn't change the fact that EVERYONE on that game has more experience than the guy who is just starting. He still has to do the same crap to get to where they are.



Really?...... cuz when I see a MMORPG that is 1-2 years old and only has 50k subscribers, I think that the game probably is going to be canceled before I even get to make any significant progress in it. When I see one that is 10 years old and has several hundred thousand players I expect that game to have a lot to offer.

When you're looking at 8 years of content that you'd be catching up to compared to 1-2 years the 8 years is very daunting and discouraging. If you don't see it that way, that's cool but you're in the minority.

[Sesh]

When you're looking at 8 years of content that you'd be catching up to compared to 1-2 years the 8 years is very daunting and discouraging. If you don't see it that way, that's cool but you're in the minority.

Except in today's FFXI it's not 8 years of content, because of many of the new changes a new player can now come in and get through, and "beat" the game in about a year. The point of a MMO is to have so much content that it takes the player 5 or more years to accomplish their goals. The more time it takes the customer the more money the company makes. If it's rewarding and fun both sides get a positive out of it.

I hate to bring up WoW again, but since it is the leader in the MMO market; "Blizzard Entertainment announced World of Warcraft on September 2, 2001.[7] The game was released on November 23, 2004, on the 10th anniversary of the Warcraft franchise." WoW is now a 7 year old game, and there are still plenty of 13 year-olds signing up to play it today. I really beg to differ that "too much content" is a bad thing or a set back for a MMO if the company makes intelligent marketing, gaming, and business decisions in favor of its customer.

[Zagen]

Except in today's FFXI it's not 8 years of content, because of many of the new changes a new player can now come in and get through, and "beat" the game in about a year. The point of a MMO is to have so much content that it takes the player 5 or more years to accomplish their goals. The more time it takes the customer the more money the company makes. If it's rewarding and fun both sides get a positive out of it.

I hate to bring up WoW again, but since it is the leader in the MMO market; "Blizzard Entertainment announced World of Warcraft on September 2, 2001.[7] The game was released on November 23, 2004, on the 10th anniversary of the Warcraft franchise." WoW is now a 7 year old game, and there are still plenty of 13 year-olds signing up to play it today. I really beg to differ that "too much content" is a bad thing or a set back for a MMO if the company makes intelligent marketing, gaming, and business decisions in favor of its customer.

A potential player who's never played FFXI sees it as 8 years of content not as something a player could get through in a couple of months to a few years depending on play time, style, and learning ability.

Wow is in a completely different ball game than FFXI which is why I haven't mentioned it until now.

WoW is computer only. This is a huge factor when considering update/upgrade potentials over the years.
WoW locks jobs meaning people will be making new characters to play different jobs (new and old players).
WoW allows you to make multiple characters/jobs.
WoW also has always been get up and go friendly, the storyline until later in the game is extremely shallow even if you do all the missions, this isn't the same in FFXI (reason i came back from WoW)

There are many more reasons why WoW is the MMO king that it is and why its a horrible comparison for FFXI or FFXIV (even if the revamp was successful I can't see it going up against WoW).

[Malamasala]

The point of a MMO is to have so much content that it takes the player 5 or more years to accomplish their goals.

I feel that MMOs do not need to be long, just have a lot of replay value. Like take FFX. With the sphere grid you could replay and try different things. In FFXI, you are pretty much stuck only playing one way per job class.

Just take Diablo 2 for example. It lasted ages, just because people could do different builds and replay the same things in a different way. FFXI isn't completely wrong though, since each of the 20 classes can be played a bit differently. But a much larger merit field would have made the game better.

[cidbahamut]

Neither of those are MMORPGs...

[Sesh]

A potential player who's never played FFXI sees it as 8 years of content not as something a player could get through in a couple of months to a few years depending on play time, style, and learning ability.

It's really hard to tell if that matters though, you would have to do polling, data gathering, etc. Whether it's 8 years of content or 2 years the MMO player has a long road ahead of them. It depends on how it is presented by the company and the community of players. (XI by far has one of the most in depth and knowledgeable MMO communities I've seen in my MMO experiences) FFXIV in countries other than Japan is doomed unless they do some very aggressive marketing, they may fill it with new content and revamp it, but let's be honest the only new subscribers they are going to get when "2.0" is complete are disgruntled FFXIers from lack of updates. So in the end what is the difference they will end up with a small population on one game, and a large pop. on another.

What most people are trying to get at is that you could potentially save both. Redo 14 find new customers, (marketing) and rebuild XI while keeping old customers, and adding new customers. Like many have said they want to save face with 14 even at the loss of 11 because it's "past its prime".

Wow is in a completely different ball game than FFXI which is why I haven't mentioned it until now.

WoW is computer only. This is a huge factor when considering update/upgrade potentials over the years.
WoW locks jobs meaning people will be making new characters to play different jobs (new and old players).
WoW allows you to make multiple characters/jobs.
WoW also has always been get up and go friendly, the storyline until later in the game is extremely shallow even if you do all the missions, this isn't the same in FFXI (reason i came back from WoW)

There are many more reasons why WoW is the MMO king that it is and why its a horrible comparison for FFXI or FFXIV (even if the revamp was successful I can't see it going up against WoW).

I wasn't really comparing the two games, more so the two game companies and the choices they made that contribute towards the games success. FFXI is completely different in so many different ways from WoW, but those core elements of any MMO that keep the player hooked new and old can always be updated, tweaked, and redesigned to fit in with today's gamer. Just because the brand is old doesn't mean the game has to be, in FFXI or WoW.

I feel that MMOs do not need to be long, just have a lot of replay value. Like take FFX. With the sphere grid you could replay and try different things. In FFXI, you are pretty much stuck only playing one way per job class.

Just take Diablo 2 for example. It lasted ages, just because people could do different builds and replay the same things in a different way. FFXI isn't completely wrong though, since each of the 20 classes can be played a bit differently. But a much larger merit field would have made the game better.

I agree with you, FFXI's main problem has always been finding a good balance of re-playability which has yet to be achieved. In the past you could continue to do events over n over but only if you could fit into the schedule of your linkshell. Now everything is lowman for the most part, we are starting to see some balance with VW etc. they just haven't really perfected it. Which would be another great thing about a XI-2.0, it would give them a great opportunity to implement all the great ideas that never came to fruition because of constraints.

[FrankReynolds]

A potential player who's never played FFXI sees it as 8 years of content not as something a player could get through in a couple of months to a few years depending on play time, style, and learning ability.

Wow is in a completely different ball game than FFXI which is why I haven't mentioned it until now.

WoW is computer only. This is a huge factor when considering update/upgrade potentials over the years.
WoW locks jobs meaning people will be making new characters to play different jobs (new and old players).
WoW allows you to make multiple characters/jobs.
WoW also has always been get up and go friendly, the storyline until later in the game is extremely shallow even if you do all the missions, this isn't the same in FFXI (reason i came back from WoW)

There are many more reasons why WoW is the MMO king that it is and why its a horrible comparison for FFXI or FFXIV (even if the revamp was successful I can't see it going up against WoW).

Your just making stuff up now. No one thinks it will take them 8 years to catch up in FFXI.

If potential new players read any reviews / forums (they would have to since there are no advertisements anymore), they would see a slew of people talking about how old content is Irrelevant (hence they can choose not to complete it) and new content is easy.


If they read reviews / forums about FFXIV..... well the fact that they are rebuilding it from the ground up should tell you what you will find.

EDIT: and to be clear, I would honestly like to get into FFXIV, but it just has way too much going against it. New / potential players don't really care what roman numeral is attached to the end of the title. Only players who have invested time in one of them care. If they are going to drop a shit load of money on rebuilding a game, it makes sense to put it into the profitable one with a stable player base. Some stupid gangster rapper once said "Don't fuck up fa sho dough tryin' ta get mo dough.". Maybe SE needs to hire him.

[Zagen]

Your just making stuff up now. No one thinks it will take them 8 years to catch up in FFXI.

I never said it would take 8 years to catch up or that a new player would perceive it to take them 8 years, I said there is 8 years of content in the game. As in Expansions, storylines, zones, cut scenes, updates, tweaks, etc. When you tell a person there's all this great stuff for you to do but almost all of the players will already be past all that and not doing it anymore you don't give them much hope.

The younger an MMO is the less likely it is that the majority of the player base will be top heavy meaning higher chances of existing players mixing in with the new players on the beginning/older content.

[Catsby]

It would make sense to give FFXI the treatment that 14 is getting but if you follow game journalism you would know that Japanese game developers sometimes let pride make their decisions.

Do we run away to lick our wounds and learn from our mistakes? Nope, fuck that. We're going to MAKE them like the game they told us sucked.