Where's our Relic...?

[saevel]

As much as I hate this card I'm playing it: Parse data and Screen shot proof cause you are clearly lying. Seriously, bring some data to back up all the steam you're blowing into this topic.

SS's of 1.5 ~ 2K CDC's ? Next time I'm doing VWNM's I'll do that then. Their common enough, but even I post those people here will just say I'm cherry picking / only doing it with buffs / ect.

Parse is gonna be 50/50, what exactly are you looking for? Melee average damage / accuracy / WS average is easy to get, but you need context. Temp item usage / and whether the VWNM has any special defense's and so forth.

Or are you talking Excal vs Almace? Our Excal PLD is currently on hiatus, the other two PLDs are on when we do VWNMs, so can post that info.

Is there a particular VWNM you want this from, or just whatever ones we end up doing that evening? Remember from one to another stats / special properties can vary dramatically.

[Kitkat]

Parse is gonna be 50/50, what exactly are you looking for? Melee average damage / accuracy / WS average is easy to get, but you need context. Temp item usage / and whether the VWNM has any special defense's and so forth.

Good for you, you picked up on the very reason for this. Temp items can come in droves, but there will be times when it won't thus making your statements false since they too are subject to situational exceptions. Temp items are not all encompassing thus become an inconstant variable on damage that places biase on otherwise standard data.

All data and calculations I performed were base statistical data with no other outside variables that couldn't be considered "constants." You based all of your argument on highly situational and biased empirical data to argue against data that can apply to any situation since it is virtually devoid of inconsistencies.

Plainly put: CdC is powerful, but alone it is not "that powerful" within constant data calculations to make a WoE weapon push a relic out of 2nd place primarily due to your biased data. It would be like a doctor performing a drug test on 8 individuals and giving 2 out of 4 of the actual test subjects something more to enhance the base drug in testing for favorable outcomes. Obviously the 2 getting the supplements will do better than the 2 without. Better context would be a war saying they can put out insane damage all the time based off sample data taken during 2hour and full buffs. Since all the statistics are not constant it is inaccurate data.

From temp items you are getting increases to your base (constant) pdif, acc, fstr, and dDex values which are not constants. Applying constant data to constant data it has been proven that VWNM do have inflated values on top of other additional constant values such as -mdt/pdt, evasion boost, accuracy boost, and other passive traits that are always active.

[saevel]

Complete nonsense

It's a freaking VWNM fight, you will have temps and you will use them. Every HV proc refils all your temps, every NQ proc gives you one random temp. With the duration of Bravers / Stalwarts being what it is, I've had fights where I had full time Bravers / Stalwarts / Ascetics. PLD's and BLU's get the exact same temps, it's a static increase for everyone thus they would see the same benefit.

And what event outside of VWNM would you possible be doing that you weren't capping many of your stats on? You do realize we're lv 95 now, Tiamat is now a EM and Kirin is a DC. There is nothing else in the game that we wouldn't be above a T unless your inside Abyssea, which happens to bring up Atma's / Crour buffs.

Trying to count VWNM without Temps / Atmacite is the same as counting Abyssea without the crour / atma buffs. Nothing but a paper exercise.

And now I see that I was correct that you were just laying a trap, you had no intention of looking at anything I posted and was already planning on springing the "you used temps!!!!" counter-argument. Of course that fact that I get 2K+ CDC's on everything else in the game just kindly slips your mind.

So tell me, what is this theoretical rock wall with infinite HP your doing your "calculations" against? Because so far, a Badelair +3 beats out a Excal / Tizona and an Almace just destroys it. Sorry that you feel all butt hurt that an easy to obtain weapon beats our a relic, take it up with SE.

[Kitkat]

Arrogance

It isn't constant variables because you are assuming they are there 100% of the time and they aren't. Reason behind that is because you will not 100% of the time hit the red proc every time due to how people build alliances for vwnm. There will always be some missing procs in the alliance. Yellow returning a random item is moot if you already have the random item for some reason and the fact it is random meaning it can try to restore Mana powder instead of a stalwarts. This alone makes it inconsistent data.

This isn't a trap, this is facts. You just don't like it because it shatters your perfect world scenario and places a bunch of "what if" scenarios that do tend to occur. Sorry you want to be an idealist and think that everything is perfect and that WoE is magically better cause it does 25~30% higher WS damage than someone who actually gears well for KoR, but I'm here chipping at your crystal ball telling you the world isn't that way.

This game is derived from mathematical computations that have shifting variables. You coming along and spouting ideal circumstance and situation doesn't change this, it only misleads those who can't bother to do the work themselves. Nothing I've said will change a persons mind about making a WoE, relic, emp, or mythic. I only put into perspective different tiering based off base statistics (weapon in base form), situational statistics (all source damage tiering), and then utilization (situation where full time melee is not possible). Each situation showed the tiering of each weapon shifted due to what was taking place in a simulated situation that was calculated out through proved mathematics or general practice.

What you are saying about a WoE weapon throws all of this out the window, and to add further insult to injury you try to say a job that has lower proficiency and well known deficiencies on the melee front is somehow transformed into a demi-god because of this weapon? Are you even listening to yourself? Do you even watch other DD to see if they are actually putting effort into what they are doing before doing comparisons? I know a aegis/excal pld also and he has an almace too, but depending on situation he has been known to actually change the sword he is using as well as use a totally different WS setup to accompany it. In situations where he can use WS as he has TP you bet he uses Almace, but in situations where Amnesia or TP resets can occur Excal comes out. I can tell you any one faced with that sort of situation would do the same give the option to do so.

As the saying goes "**** is situational, what is best in one setting is not best in all settings."

[saevel]

It isn't constant variables because you are assuming they are there 100% of the time and they aren't. Reason behind that is because you will not 100% of the time hit the red proc every time due to how people build alliances for vwnm. There will always be some missing procs in the alliance. Yellow returning a random item is moot if you already have the random item for some reason and the fact it is random meaning it can try to restore Mana powder instead of a stalwarts. This alone makes it inconsistent data.

This isn't a trap, this is facts. You just don't like it because it shatters your perfect world scenario and places a bunch of "what if" scenarios that do tend to occur. Sorry you want to be an idealist and think that everything is perfect and that WoE is magically better cause it does 25~30% higher WS damage than someone who actually gears well for KoR, but I'm here chipping at your crystal ball telling you the world isn't that way.

This game is derived from mathematical computations that have shifting variables. You coming along and spouting ideal circumstance and situation doesn't change this, it only misleads those who can't bother to do the work themselves. Nothing I've said will change a persons mind about making a WoE, relic, emp, or mythic. I only put into perspective different tiering based off base statistics (weapon in base form), situational statistics (all source damage tiering), and then utilization (situation where full time melee is not possible). Each situation showed the tiering of each weapon shifted due to what was taking place in a simulated situation that was calculated out through proved mathematics or general practice.

What you are saying about a WoE weapon throws all of this out the window, and to add further insult to injury you try to say a job that has lower proficiency and well known deficiencies on the melee front is somehow transformed into a demi-god because of this weapon? Are you even listening to yourself? Do you even watch other DD to see if they are actually putting effort into what they are doing before doing comparisons? I know a aegis/excal pld also and he has an almace too, but depending on situation he has been known to actually change the sword he is using as well as use a totally different WS setup to accompany it. In situations where he can use WS as he has TP you bet he uses Almace, but in situations where Amnesia or TP resets can occur Excal comes out. I can tell you any one faced with that sort of situation would do the same give the option to do so.

As the saying goes "**** is situational, what is best in one setting is not best in all settings."

Umm huh ?

Listen I know your over on BG in some hate thread. And you guys are going all mental. You really might want to check your info though, not all VWNM's are Lord Varney, he's the exception not the rule. I stated that I had 140 (now 142) DEX in WS gear, that Bravers was +20 and that Atmacite was another +10 for a total of +170. That with that I was able to get 1.5~2K CDC's on VWNMs and these are average. BLU's and PLD's should be able to get more DEX and attack as they have better options. PLD's will only be single wielding though, which is something people often conveniently forget. But there is no reason a BLU shouldn't be getting higher in WS damage.

Yes I know the game is based on math ... I kinda use it alot. Your trying to alter the scenario to one where an Excal would beat out a Badelair +3, those temps and buffs you mention effect all equally, so by reducing one your just reducing the other and the relationship stays the same. These aren't what-if scenarios, it's simple, in VW you use temps, you can replenish those temps on a pretty consistent basis. Atmacite is also taken into account, although it's no where near as significant as what's in abyssea. And ... that's all. Nothing more is added or taken away.

And I never said demi-god, merely that CDC is ~that~ good, meaning any job that can use CDC would receive similar effects. Your just listening to people who really hate me and the shell I happen to be in. Their in there talking about damage on Lord Varney ... the windy T3 that's annoying even at 95. They didn't mention anything about the turtle, or the Iron Giant, or the T1/T2's. They didn't mention any of the Jeuno T1's or T2's, nor the Outlands T1/T2's. Jeuno T3's are a bit harder but I hit those numbers on the Eyeball and Pil. Haven't tried on Kaggan as I'm /SCH as support only during that annoying fight. BTW my damage sucks on Varney, just like everyone else's, LV is just annoying.

But by all means continue the hate and BG bashing. Especially find the part where your asking everyone to try to get me banned.