Are We Wasting Our Time?

[Alhanelem]

I don't agree with that 'dishonest with us a lot' bit, but I do agree that in this case, it was handled wrong. Why bother asking us if they're not going to factor it in?

[Selzak]

Just another point I'd like to make: My first choice was the Opo-opo, and I think I'd actually prefer the Hippogryph to the Scropion. This is not at all the issue, and if you think that we're just whining because we want our Scorpion then you are missing the point to a ridiculous extent.

[Selzak]

I imagine we'll get some response along the lines that the decision was made independently by the development team and that no favoritism is involved (they just happened to pick the fourth-favorite choice overall and Japanese favorite, coincidence!) and maybe even go as far as adding the Scorpion to appease us.

I'll say it now, I don't care about the Scorpion. I want an explanation or an apology, and some acknowledgement of the real issue. Best-case scenario for me is that they admit they haven't been paying enough (any) attention to this board and they start. That doesn't mean they should give PLDs their HOLIEST WARRIOR Invincible-ga ability that some 16-year old asked for, but that they should pay equal attention to their players regardless of what language they speak. If there's a 90 page thread on the Job Manifesto in the English forum and a 20 page thread on the Job Manifesto in the Japanese forum, I don't want to see a response in our thread that says "Answers to your feedback, keep it coming!" that exclusively responds to feedback from the Japanese thread.

That's the main sentiment in the OP, and I believe it's the sentiment of most people here- the situation with this BST thing just happens to be blatant enough to warrant an actual response. Before this, one could make the argument that SE was just inadequate and lacked the ability to properly communicate with with its English-speaking players or read what they were saying. Now, it's apparent that the problem goes at least a little bit deeper.



As has been stated before, I think we should be careful not to misplace the blame on this problem. We really only have contact with two community reps, and it seems like all they're here to do is provide translations for us. I have a very strong feeling that we tend to get pushed outside of the circle via them, not because of them. Especially with Camate, it seems like he did all he could early on and finally just gave up- and I hope no one makes the mistake of blaming him for sharing the poll with us in the first place if our votes weren't going to make a difference. I believe that, like us, Camate genuinely thought out votes would matter, and was probably as dismayed as we are now when he shared our results with a development team that didn't care.

"Hopefully" this is just a very big structural problem, but this whole debacle calls that into question and makes us wonder what kind of attitudes the people we're giving our money to and trying to communicate with actually have towards us. This is what we want an answer to, and (at least on my part) it's coming from a very genuine place.

[Camiie]

For the longest time, SE seemed to have a policy of ignoring or dismissing pretty much anything the players had to say. They were aloof, stubborn, and arrogant. Then, suddenly, they started listening. They started reacting. The very things people were asking for started to be implemented. Adjustments and tweaks were made based on player feedback. What a marked improvement that was. I guess all good things must come to an end though.

Now... in this case they're outright lying to us? That's more than just a snapback to the old ways. This is even worse than when they apparently thought the player base had nothing constructive to offer. It's a step beyond dismissive. Just how stupid and worthless do they think we are?

You can fix this though, SE. I'd be shocked if you did, but you can. And this isn't directed specifically at you, Camate. It's SE as a whole.

Apologize first and foremost. Eat your piece of humble pie. You're big boys and girls. You're professionals. You can take the criticism and admit you were wrong. I don't care whether it was a mistake, a miscommunication, or a purposeful act. You screwed up and you should be sorry. If not, as some players like to suggest to one another, you should quit. That may be harsh, but unlike some people in this thread, I don't let companies as large as SE get off with very many excuses. SE has done too many great things in the past to make me expect anything less than the best of you at all times. You all set the standard. Live up to it.

Secondly, the the scorpion should now be implemented along with the other "winners". I seriously doubt that this is some terrible hardship for you, but even if it is it needs to be done. To be honest, I don't see why you didn't just add it in the first place. Interest has been shown for scorpion and other type pets for a very long time. You at SE aren't stupid or blind and neither are we the players. Now, start acting like it.

[Shibayama]

Oh I'm almost certain there will be no apology at all from SE - if they even choose to acknowledge this, it'll most likely be a response saying how "Well while the votes may have been higher, we thought that the *rationale* behind the hippogriph was just better so we decided to implement that based on the current status of available pets" Or something.

This seems to be commonplace with big japanese gaming companies though. Capcom's excuse for why Megaman wasn't in MvC3 was that he "didn't get enough requests to make the cut into the game" - and yet obscure characters like Firebrand and Rocket Raccoon were...

Hmm...

[Selzak]

Oh I'm almost certain there will be no apology at all from SE - if they even choose to acknowledge this, it'll most likely be a response saying how "Well while the votes may have been higher, we thought that the *rationale* behind the hippogriph was just better so we decided to implement that based on the current status of available pets" Or something.

This seems to be commonplace with big japanese gaming companies though. Capcom's excuse for why Megaman wasn't in MvC3 was that he "didn't get enough requests to make the cut into the game" - and yet obscure characters like Firebrand and Rocket Raccoon were...

Hmm...

I guess it's just a trait they picked up from American companies, but the subtlety of our corporate bullshit was lost in translation.

[Olor]

I couldn't even believe that hippo won, given the fact no one I saw really voted for it.

[Shadowsong]

Dude I'm still not understanding why you made this thread.
SE has the RIGHT to be favor Japanese people. They can favor one legged prostitutes if they wanted.
Is this problem enough of a concern for you to boycott the game?
If it's not, then you should maybe just be quiet and keep playing. It's not like the Japanese pay less, have instant warps to anywhere they want, get all the drops they need, and never die.
You need to reevaluate what's important to you in the game, and what's not. And if you feel so strongly as to write for 8 pages, countering everyone's well written arguments with jack-assery, than maybe it IS time to quit, because there seems to be other issues you have with the game as well.

On a side note, if Hippo turns out to be a DD version of ladybug, its gonna be the best pet ever created

[Camiie]

Dude I'm still not understanding why you made this thread.
SE has the RIGHT to be favor Japanese people. They can favor one legged prostitutes if they wanted.

Yeah, they have the right to do ignore, favor, and lie to whoever they want. We have the right to call them out on it too. When you exercise your rights and privileges, or do anything really, you have to accept the possible consequences of doing so.

[Selzak]

Dude I'm still not understanding why you made this thread.
SE has the RIGHT to be favor Japanese people. They can favor one legged prostitutes if they wanted.
Is this problem enough of a concern for you to boycott the game?

It may be enough of a problem for me to quit, which is why I'm trying to better understand it. That's a curious use of the word boycott, you don't seem to be able to comprehend things outside of the context of the U.S. government or something. This has nothing to do with the law. Do you know that SE also has the right to ban you for no reason at all? It's in the ToS. I'm sure if they randomly banned you for absolutely no reason at all you wouldn't complain though- you can't sue them, so it's ok and shouldn't be discussed!

If it's not, then you should maybe just be quiet and keep playing.

You are good at arguing. Why should I do that?

And if you feel so strongly as to write for 8 pages, countering everyone's well written arguments with jack-assery, than maybe it IS time to quit, because there seems to be other issues you have with the game as well.

I've counted three people, including you, who have disagreed with what this thread set out to recognize. Only one of them (definitely not you) attempted to make logical arguments. I feel strongly enough about anything to call people out on bad arguments, and it's just because I appreciate honest debates and get irritated when people make bad arguments (on whatever side). This is why I hate (but closely follow) politics and am rather susceptible to trolling if it's clever enough.