How about an Enfeebling Magic thread?

[Greatguardian]

Monster vs Player melee damage formula works differently then us to the monster. I believe our friends have been busy figuring this out. We've all known for years that defense becomes useless after a certain easy to reach point. That's why turtle PLD's have went the way for the dodo long before Abyssea was every created. You mitigate more damage by killing the target faster then by attempting to reduce it's attack.

My model has the formula nearly working the same way, except that monsters have a lower cRatio floor at 1.0 and generally have ridiculously high Attack values. I mean like 1,500-2,000 Attack being common for strong NMs.

It's typically more that Defense is useless in small numbers, and becomes increasingly effective until the cutoff point at 1.0 cRatio. The problem is, in order to reach those relatively nice returns, you need assloads of defense - like full turtle 1k-2k defense. Stacking enough Defense-specific buffs to get that sort of rating is just counterintuitive because of all the powerful offensive buffs you give up in doing so, and because no matter what monsters will never score below 1.0 cRatio on you (meaning you can't ever fully mitigate damage).

Likewise, because cRatio caps, the difference between something like 2 Defense and 500 Defense is absolutely nil - allowing people to use abilities like Berserk and Counterstance with absolute impunity on stronger monsters.

[saevel]

My model has the formula nearly working the same way, except that monsters have a lower cRatio floor at 1.0 and generally have ridiculously high Attack values. I mean like 1,500-2,000 Attack being common for strong NMs.

It's typically more that Defense is useless in small numbers, and becomes increasingly effective until the cutoff point at 1.0 cRatio. The problem is, in order to reach those relatively nice returns, you need assloads of defense - like full turtle 1k-2k defense. Stacking enough Defense-specific buffs to get that sort of rating is just counterintuitive because of all the powerful offensive buffs you give up in doing so, and because no matter what monsters will never score below 1.0 cRatio on you (meaning you can't ever fully mitigate damage).

Likewise, because cRatio caps, the difference between something like 2 Defense and 500 Defense is absolutely nil - allowing people to use abilities like Berserk and Counterstance with absolute impunity on stronger monsters.

GG you do realize I was the person who came up with the 1.0 Ratio idea originally, it was shortly after ToAU was released and I had leveled up /BLU for my RDM. I went out testing some defense values (Pro IV + Cocoon + Taco) and saw absolutely no difference fighting VT monsters. Knowing that monsters do not have ridiculously high attack, without some sort of buffs (berserk) or them being a DRK, I had to figure out why I wasn't forcing their damage to the 0.5 floor we know. I never thought of there being a positive level correction and their formula scaling completely differently then ours. I had assumed that if I could get the monster to 0.5 that it would start hitting for 0 similar to what happens with us.

Testing has recently shown that while there isn't a 1.0 ratio floor, vs anything bigger then you the chances of you getting under 1.0 are rather slim. And even then the actual benefit would be small.